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WikiIndex talk:What is a WikiIndex entry?: Difference between revisions
WikiIndex talk:What is a WikiIndex entry? (edit)
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'I did the same with Leucosticte on Wikiversity, where he could actually build content, and if willing to participate in the creation of ethical standards, even content in the areas where he has been the most provocative. That was ignored. If it isn't easy for him, it's not "wiki."' That's actually not what happened. On Wikiversity, I wrote up some ethical standards at [[wikiversity:Wikiversity:Ethics for pages concerning illegal or physically dangerous activities]], and was viewed with suspicion as a possible troublemaker. So basically, whether you edit boldly or attempt to draft policy first, you get accused of disruption. It's happening here too. The bottom line is, both wikis want to ban the content from the road altogether, rather than establishing rules of the road for allowing the content to safely travel. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] ([[User talk:Leucosticte|talk]]) 18:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC) | 'I did the same with Leucosticte on Wikiversity, where he could actually build content, and if willing to participate in the creation of ethical standards, even content in the areas where he has been the most provocative. That was ignored. If it isn't easy for him, it's not "wiki."' That's actually not what happened. On Wikiversity, I wrote up some ethical standards at [[wikiversity:Wikiversity:Ethics for pages concerning illegal or physically dangerous activities]], and was viewed with suspicion as a possible troublemaker. So basically, whether you edit boldly or attempt to draft policy first, you get accused of disruption. It's happening here too. The bottom line is, both wikis want to ban the content from the road altogether, rather than establishing rules of the road for allowing the content to safely travel. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] ([[User talk:Leucosticte|talk]]) 18:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC) | ||
::Leucosticte proposed an inappropriate policy, clueless, and disagreed with the user and sysop who discussed it with him. He did not take steps to engage a larger community. He was not warned for disruption from what he did. He was challenged to actually do something other than demand that others pave the road for him. His complaint above is that Someone might accuse him of Stuff. He's right. Heat, kitchen. He wants someone else to do the hard work so that he can write Whatever He Wants. I've risked wikipolitical capital to protect Leucosticte where there is the possibility of productive work (for Wikiversity, educational materials). His response has been to crawl off in a corner and whine loudly about How Unfair People Are. He's not actually interested in the topics he raises, they are excuses to get people yelling at him. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 02:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC) | ::Leucosticte proposed an inappropriate policy, clueless, and disagreed with the user and sysop who discussed it with him. He did not take steps to engage a larger community. He was not warned for disruption from what he did. He was challenged to actually do something other than demand that others pave the road for him. His complaint above is that Someone might accuse him of Stuff. He's right. Heat, kitchen. He wants someone else to do the hard work so that he can write Whatever He Wants. I've risked wikipolitical capital to protect Leucosticte where there is the possibility of productive work (for Wikiversity, educational materials). His response has been to crawl off in a corner and whine loudly about How Unfair People Are. He's not actually interested in the topics he raises, they are excuses to get people yelling at him. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 02:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC) | ||
:::Is there a difference between "crawling off in a corner" and disengaging when ordered to, under penalty of being blocked? I don't know what failure to engage a larger community you're talking about; the Wikiversity policy was advertised [[wikiversity:Wikiversity:Colloquium#Incident-driven_policy_development|at the Colloquium]]. Here, the wiki is small enough that everyone can check Recent Changes once a day and know everything that is going on. | |||
:::"He wants someone else to do the hard work so that he can write Whatever He Wants." The only reason it's hard work is that you guys make it harder than it needs to be. You over-complicate stuff that could be very simple. For example, it should be obvious, to anyone who accepts the idea of self-ownership, that everyone has a right to kill themselves. If that basic principle of the right to off oneself had been accepted, then collaboration on the resource could have proceeded, but people got in the way. | |||
:::I don't get it. In the case of suicide, the person who is directly affected is in a position to make the decision. The resource actually promoted safety by encouraging methods such as pentobarbital that were safer to would-be rescuers than, say, carbon monoxide poisoning. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] ([[User talk:Leucosticte|talk]]) 03:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC) | |||
'''Commentary''' For what it's worth, I agree completely that WikiIndex shouldn't just be empirical--we give a better impression of the WikiSphere by discussing things more colloquially (in addition to hard numbers). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 18:14, 11 January 2015 (UTC) | '''Commentary''' For what it's worth, I agree completely that WikiIndex shouldn't just be empirical--we give a better impression of the WikiSphere by discussing things more colloquially (in addition to hard numbers). [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 18:14, 11 January 2015 (UTC) | ||
:Yes. That is, we are not *only* a directory, with basic wiki information. However, the question is how to handle this "colloquial" discussion -- by which I think Koavf means "informal." My suggestion is this: mainspace pages are places to hold information about a wiki. What is placed on such pages should not be mere opinion or judgment, generally. I can think of exceptions, but they all fall into something that, if push comes to shove, is a collective assessment, made for protective purpose. Such as "covers ideas that are offensive to many," "NSFW," etc. In line with this is our practice of not signing comments on mainspace pages. They are not supposed to be "personal comments," but rather text added in service of the community purpose, anticipating consensus. I am not suggesting requiring the full panalopy of verifiability standards used by Wikipedia, though their guidelines can sometimes be useful. | :Yes. That is, we are not *only* a directory, with basic wiki information. However, the question is how to handle this "colloquial" discussion -- by which I think Koavf means "informal." My suggestion is this: mainspace pages are places to hold information about a wiki. What is placed on such pages should not be mere opinion or judgment, generally. I can think of exceptions, but they all fall into something that, if push comes to shove, is a collective assessment, made for protective purpose. Such as "covers ideas that are offensive to many," "NSFW," etc. In line with this is our practice of not signing comments on mainspace pages. They are not supposed to be "personal comments," but rather text added in service of the community purpose, anticipating consensus. I am not suggesting requiring the full panalopy of verifiability standards used by Wikipedia, though their guidelines can sometimes be useful. | ||