User talk:MarkDilley

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Mark Dilley wins another victory in the fight against unnecessary complexity

I guess I was expecting dozens of people to each insert their pet peeve into the WikiIndex talk:Blocking Policy#draft blocking policy proposal, making it balloon up into a huge monster of complexity.

I am pleasantly surprised that you made it shorter. Also, it makes me happy that you deleted my negative language about "warning" and replaced it with a more positive alternative. --DavidCary 01:44, 8 September 2009 (EDT)

The value of discussion

Discussion is also work, unless not completed and hanging in the air for years. Even then it is work, only without result. Naturally it is easier to do little edits here and there and consider that as work with results rather than coming to a conclusion in a debate since the later requires more staying power.

I do not mind if anybody improves my statements on a talk page like better link format. But whatever I write there should not be changed in the wording and left with my signature. That would be forgery, that is not me any more. My statements are not articles to be edited. Manorainjan (talk) 20:27, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

When I count amongst my last 100 edits only 20% is discussion, the rest, 80% is "work" ;-) How is Your work-count? Manorainjan (talk) 21:08, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I really am not getting into an argument about discussion and work.  :-) ~~ MarkDilley

You are not getting into it, You where the one who started it in the first place. Manorainjan (talk) 21:11, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Manorainjan, maybe it's a second language thing, but the tone of your words seems hostile. Might I suggest you take a rest from this subject? --MarvelZuvembie (talk) 21:16, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I do not think it's about tone. But if You think, You can explain it. Manorainjan (talk) 21:26, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I apologize, I didn't mean to say that discussion was not work, when in fact it is sometimes the hardest work. ~~ MarkDilley

Sometimes? ;-) For every work there is a competence to aquire that makes it easier if not possible at all. NVC and sorry for late reply, I was busy with "work" ;-) Manorainjan (talk) 23:21, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

• 了解!--Msnhinet8 (talk) 23:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

How community works

• Meatball:WhyWikiWorks is what I was so poorly trying to get to. ~~ MarkDilley

"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you — ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." is one of seven quotes inscribed on the walls at the gravesite of John F. Kennedy at Arlington National Cemetery.

In that spirit it does not bring forward community feeling by howling that one is not part of it but by active participation and invitation for others to participate. Now, on the one hand You are acting 'nice' by welcoming new users and telling them to BeBold. But on several occasions where I acted semi-bold and discussed a change with a 'senior' user You where howling 'I am not involved in the conversation'. So, what I did was to shift this topic in front and invited the community to discuss it there. Now the question arises why didn't You do that in the first place, being more senior and obviously feeling the need for participation showing me HowTo CommunityCate? Now, I went further and informed other Users who obviously did not take note of this discussion. Rather than supporting the unfinished discussion You started to discourage my efforts by belittling the value of discussion calling then 'endless' which is an euphemism for useless and without result and contradicting discussion with 'work' as a symbol for productivity. Also You potentially started a separation of 'me' and what I do (endless discussion) and what You call 'we' and what actually You personally allegedly are doing. this is neither 'wok' AKA little edits here and there nor promoting community AKA discussion for finding solutions with which everybody can live nicely.

What You got to do now is, to find Your inner motivation what drove You to disturb constructive discussions and then redirect this motivation into a more productive strategy that supports the progress of a community. Manorainjan (talk) 13:34, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Ohai Mark

Sincerely, Johnny. Sweetie Belle (talk) 23:53, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Should we have alternative infoboxes besides Template:Wiki?

Discussion here. --MarvelZuvembie (talk) 19:36, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Improving the community

Discussion with results AKA work ;-) Any suggestions? Manorainjan (talk)

WikiIndex_talk:Community_talk#Request_account_-_real_name

Do You know the answer?Manorainjan (talk)

Regarding Your 'envisioning' the Community portal to be of any use for community or discussion, how shall this question WikiIndex talk:OptOut be treated, how would the community be 'notified' about it? Manorainjan (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

eMail

What happened to the fixing of email functionality for this Wiki?Manorainjan (talk) 12:51, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Upgrading to a clean install of the latest stable version was hoped to have resolved that issue. It hasn't. That is the place where we are at now. ~~ MarkDilley

You told me, that some user account do not have this problems. From there I concluded, that it is not a software problem. the Problem sits in the net. It got to do with mail servers and blacklists.Manorainjan (talk)

PS: When this update was done?

Last year was the latest upgrade. ~~ MarkDilley

✓ Done see WikiIndex:Community_portal Manorainjan (talk) 23:02, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Too late

http://wikiindex.org/User_talk:W812949 Manorainjan (talk)

Wikipediaphobie?

Wikipedia has no page about us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wikis

And then the ivory tower inhabitants wonder why this Wiki does not grow a stronger user base within the said 8+ years... Who is the PR secretary of this one-horse town? Manorainjan (talk) 22:03, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

User:Robin Patterson

Do You know what role Robin Patterson played in the founding phase of WikiIndex? Manorainjan (talk) 23:27, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Robin helped with SwitchWiki and jumped over to WikiIndex for a bit. ~~ MarkDilley

Sounds like a founding member to me, if he was already engaged on the preceding project. Manorainjan (talk)

Great discussion :-)

... You said 2007 ...

Was there any result? Manorainjan (talk) 07:37, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Project Namespace

Can You give a definition of Project Namespace?

They are typically the name of the wiki, also called meta pages. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 22:53, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

fb

Do You ever read your facebook mails? M.

new WikiIndex logo

File:WikiIndexLogo2014.png

I have no idea what could be offending in a sunflower.Manorainjan (talk) 10:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Really? As Sean suggests, a sunflower with the brackets around it is copyrighted. Makes sense to me. ~~ MarkDilley

and looks like it is in the public domain, thanks YiFei.

blocked from doing work

I think the biggest thing for you to do Manorainjan, is to slow down here. Best, MarkDilley

What would be the advantage of being slow? the one who does mistakes should be more careful. Maybe he should 'slow' down, take a vacation. I'm fine. My mind is concentrated. I'm in good mood. What is wrong with that? M.

I think they basically mean, spend more time in the D part of the BRD cycle, and work to get consensus on your side. Leucosticte (talk) 20:14, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm the last one to avoid any discussion ;-) But Sean has blocked every possible aspect of my account regarding communication, even internal mail which is needed for this part: User is blocked Jump to: navigation, search Your username or IP address has been blocked. The block was made by Hoof Hearted. The reason given is no reason given. Start of block: 14:17, 19 September 2014 Expiry of block: 14:17, 26 September 2014 Intended blockee: Manorainjan You can contact Hoof Hearted or another administrator to discuss the block. You cannot use the 'email this user' feature unless a valid email address is specified in your account preferences and you have not been blocked from using it. Your current IP address is 178.11.160.142, and the block ID is #19490. Please include all above details in any queries you make. M.

The reason Sean gave was copyright violations, repeated disruption to WikiIndex, refusing to following community-agreed standards in the first block. ~~ MarkDilley

None of those accusations have substance. He totally failed to supply any proof of his biased claims. He did not even try. Manorainjan (talk)

The log summary helps make people realize there was more misbehavior after the unblock; otherwise, the reblock makes it look like there was a wheel war. Special:Logs/block. Leucosticte (talk) 22:20, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

There was and is no wheel war.

1. Sean blocked my account
2. Mark expressed that he did not agree with that.
3. Sean ignored that
4. YiFei, being more practical than talkative unblocked my account, expressing his opinion by this.
5. Sean disrespected both and blocked my account again.
6. Mark repeated his difference in opinion
7. Sean kept his stubborn attitude and silence.

That's it. Now the thing hangs in the middle kind of. Sean puts his nose deep in 'work' trying his very, very best to ignore my IP edits or anybody's comments on this 'case' and passes his chances to 'range block' the IPs I'm using. And none of the sysops like to stir anybody up further. So, Your expectation of a wheel war will go unfulfilled. I'm not sorry about this.Manorainjan (talk)

How was that not a wheel war? Are you saying that the battle was only hypothetical and not real? Leucosticte (talk) 23:41, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

You seam to have serious difficulties to understand the motivations of people. First of all there was no intention of waging a war from any side, especially not amongst the sysops. Everybody expressed their opinion in their specific way, once. Only mark did the same thing twice. But he did no reverts, blocks or unblocks at all. So, nothing to see here, keep moving! Manorainjan (talk)

If there were a fight, who do you think would win? What odds would you place on the various combatants? Also, are you willing to provoke enough fights (n >= 30) that we will have a statistically significant sample with which to judge the accuracy of your predictions? Also, how much money can we bring into the WikiIndex coffers by taking the wiki private and charging the public for admission to see the fight? Leucosticte (talk) 00:04, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

If there would be a fight, nobody would win, everybody would lose and everybody except You knows that. And You don't have the power to start a war Birdy. Manorainjan (talk)

That's only true if the last man standing is mortally wounded before he finishes everyone else off. Leucosticte (talk) 00:10, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Hey Birdy, if You can't sleep, do something useful: Table of results M.

User:Manorainjan

Mark, there are numerous reasons why the above user should be blocked, some of them extremely serious, and I must insist that the block should stand. I will detail my reasons on Monday, when I have more time and less interuptions. I would appreciate that you support your fellow sysops, rather than constantly over-rulling them. Respectfully yours, Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 21:00, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Special:RequestAccount

We got to change this page in order to supply necessary information right there.

• I would also like to include in WikiIndex:RealNames that using a RN is appreciated but optional.
• What about that field in request form? Is it optional or compulsory?
• The form does not explicitly tell which field needs to be filled!! There is lack of clarity. That does not support the generation of trust. I cannot continue to write help text if I do not know the conditions of account creation.
• I also suggest to trim this page quite a lot. For example "Other information" should be omitted.
• This page is the very entry point for wiki community. This and the following procedures are absolutely vital for it's growth.
• I also may be lacking some technical terms here. Request, creation, validation, 'approval'?
• The page treats email verification and account approval as the same thing with the same word.
• The main page navigation speaks of Request and the Help page of create account. There should not be a difference.

Manorainjan (talk) 21:35, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Talk:AssumeGoodFaith

Check my recent rant about Your favourite dogma ;-) And how I got there. (He/she/it/them was online today) Manorainjan (talk) 23:10, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Template:Grey4Column

• Template:W Delete? Categorize? Manorainjan (talk)

WikiIndex:Community portal/News

I thought this is newest news on top? --Manorainjan (talk) 16:24, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

WikiIndex:Teamwork Info

This is a proposal for a new wiki community related feature.

I hope You like the idea and find a way to integrate this table on Your User Page.

Online Accessibility	E-mail	Commitment	Exeptions	UTC	Skills	Duty	Rank	Propensities
	yes		no time until 4-11-2014			-	Founder

It's first try. I'm happy if You help to improve it. Details filled in lines other than mine are of course only for demonstration. I'm curious to see how You might fill it. --Manorainjan (talk) 00:27, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

No comments on this from You? Manorainjan (talk)

I am extremely busy for this month with the political season in the states. The comments I have are not easily shortened. Will have to get to it later. Best, MarkDilley

I see. It is on occasion of Your remark that You are swamped till 4.11.14 that I started developing this idea. Manorainjan (talk)

You do have some time! I have seen it. Do You prefer to waste it in micromanagement? Manorainjan (talk) 10:50, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Is the political season now over? Manorainjan (talk) 21:41, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

It is nearly half a year now, since I asked. How much time do You intend to devote to the community You are "envisioning" to be the leader of? Manorainjan (talk) 07:00, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

meatball

What happened to MeatballWiki? It is said to be locked. But there is no reason either here or on the wiki itself. Manorainjan (talk) 00:49, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Real Names

You will be interested in that WikiIndex_talk:RealNames#How_real_is_the_support_for_real_names_on_this_Wiki.3F and we will be curious to get further input from You, Mr. Leader ;-) Manorainjan (talk) 19:11, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

What serves the community?

Do You think, it serves the community if You let people invent structures for apparently no reason and not teach them how to interact with community, how to introduce new intended concepts and how to get feedback from the peers? How will this serve qualitative or quantitative growth of community? This is not a rhetoric question. I expect an explanation of "What in the world where You thinking?" Manorainjan (talk) 10:49, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Request for ServerMove concerns

Hi MarkDilley. Since you are one of the most active contributors here I wanted to be sure to draw your attention to the upcoming ServerMove and solicit your help in making the transition a positive rather than negative experience. Please take a moment to visit ServerMove and curate the list of concerns. Thanks! -- BrandonCsSanders (talk) 22:39, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Create.Wiki‎

You knew it is a farm. Why didn't You use the farm-template? Manorainjan (talk) 11:49, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

It's not that easy. Try this: Template:Wiki FarmManorainjan (talk) 15:35, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Mark, I patiently waited for You to moan. So no is the time: You are the "elder". It is You who should teach me how to set up a wiki farm entry, not the other way around. http://dilbert.com/dyn/str_strip/000000000/00000000/0000000/000000/00000/1000/900/1915/1915.strip.gif

• And it is not me who should need to counter-check Your edits.
• The leader of a wiki is to set a good example. Moaning and leading exclude each other. Manorainjan (talk) 17:46, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

Manorainjan, as the 'elder' here I gave clear direction on how the interaction on the wiki would be better for you. I said, instead of coming to my page and telling me I did something wrong, just fix it. That is how I teach you how to interact on this wiki. ~~ MarkDilley

Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other.
John F. Kennedy

Vacations are for the tiered ones. I'm not tiered. And You will not pay my vacations anyway. So, do not ask me, do not interfere in my schedule.

But if You got tiered, I prepared something nice for You, something I "envisioned" some time ago:

Or do some real work! WikiIndex talk:Leader Manorainjan (talk) 23:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Please comment

WikiIndex_talk:Community_portal#We_need_to_have_a_community_discussion_about_Nathania.2FNathan_Larson.2FUser:Leucosticte. Honestly, this has really been weighing on me and I am extremely uncomfortable with this content. I know we've spoken about it before but I finally took some rogue admin action about it and deleted some of the links to content about CP. I can't handle it. We shouldn't be linking to that material here or allowing someone to overrun this site with niche vanity wikis. Koavf (talk) 06:08, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Mark, I agree that your input on this would be useful. Some clarity is needed on whether this project is open to listing every wiki, or whether there's going to be some restriction on scope. No clear standard has been set as to what content isn't allowed, other than obvious linkspam to non-wiki websites, and I think that previously the door has been wide open to covering the whole wikisphere, and that that is how the situation should remain. The vast majority of WikiIndex deals with niche wikis, and that includes a handful of vanity wikis, aka blikis. Leucosticte (talk) 18:02, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

What is a community response to this? Free speech or not having CP here... and not a rogue admin action, no, simply editing. ~~ MarkDilley

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase that? Thanks. Leucosticte (talk) 19:16, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Test category

Category:FirstAdditional Is this serving a function now? Do you want to delete it? Koavf (talk) 04:31, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

It is part of the template/Boilerplate.Manorainjan (talk) 11:23, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

The template? There are lots of templates. Which one? What function is this serving? Koavf (talk) 20:05, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

That Template Manorainjan (talk) 20:39, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

BackupData not available for the community

Hi Mark,

at WikiIndex:Consensus You wrote that ray "provides" the Backup data. How and where does he do this? Where can members of this "community" get hands on it?Manorainjan (talk) 11:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

From Your one month of silence I conclude, that the backup is not available for the community. Also I conclude, that You Yourself are not available for Work on this wiki. Manorainjan (talk) 12:08, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Usually it's necessary to redact sensitive data anyway, or export it as XML files or something. You can create your own backup by setting up a script to export everything. I've done it before. It is kind of a PITA, though. There was also mw:User:Leucosticte/Doing the Newgon stuff, instructions for exporting stuff from NewgonWiki. Leucosticte (talk) 10:09, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Your silly comment about WikiWikiWeb

You wrote "Your efforts have closed the original WikiWikiWeb (they have moved it to the new Smallest Federated Wiki) and I request you stop editing the page going forward. MarkDilley"

1. My efforts can not close WikiWikiWeb. Ward is the only one who can close it.
2. They have not moved it.
3. And one can not move it to Smallest Federated Wiki because that is an engine and not a wiki.
4. there is no reason whatsoever why I should not edit a page which contains mistakes.

You have never been so wrong before. Manorainjan (talk) 21:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Weigh in on WikiIndex:ServerName#Poll?

I wanted to be sure to draw your attention to a potential decision to change the domain of this wiki. I hope you'll weigh in with your opinion. Thanks! BrandonCsSanders (talk) 20:09, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

WikiIndex:Community portal/News

Hey Mark, what was that?

Was the news in this that You woke up and finally noticed something?

I moved Your "news" to the proper place: WikiIndex_talk:ServerMove#Google_AdSense

DeWikiIndex

Koaf said, You know something about: WikiIndex_talk:ServerMove#ServerMove_is_Finished Manorainjan (talk) 10:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Spam

Please explain It seems like we have IP editing but we also have a procedure for requesting an account: that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Can you explain this? Koavf (talk) 13:08, 21 May 2015 (PDT)

We always hat both, IP-editing and accounts. This is not new and just like on Wikipedia. What is there to explain? We prefer accounts, but don't force it. We prefer real names but don't force it. We perfer pictures in the profiles but don't force it. Manorainjan 13:36, 21 May 2015 (PDT)

Account requests Stop changing the titles of my posts. It doesn't make sense to have an account request process when you can edit without an account anyway. Koavf (talk) 13:48, 21 May 2015 (PDT)

There is quite a difference between something that You don't grasp and something that does not make sense. If You say it does not make sense than it means it is objectively wrong. But if You say it does not make sense to You, it means You simply don't get it. And that is here the case. The situation as is, the possibility of IP editing & accounts at the same time, that makes a lot of sense. Normally I do not use argument by authority or so, but in this case it makes sense: IP editing & accounts is the situation on the whole of Wikipedia. Now You say, You know better than all of them ;-) Say they got no success. Manorainjan 13:55, 21 May 2015 (PDT)

Stop please Don't change the titles of my posts anymore. Even if you don't like them. In English, you don't capitalize every noun as in German. The only pronoun which is capitalized is "I" or any one that starts a sentence. I have no clue what your response is saying: it's not intelligible to me. You will have to rephrase it if you want me to understand or you can just let Mark respond on his own talk page to a question directed at him in the first place. Thanks anyway. Koavf (talk) 14:03, 21 May 2015 (PDT)

Koavf, it seems odd to me as well. Why do we require approval for an account in order to edit if anonymous can just edit anyway? Why not just allow anyone to create an account and edit if we are going to let ips edit? One of the major forms of spam on mediawiki installations follows the pattern 1. create account, 2. upload picture, 3. edit page with picture and lots of spam, 4. go away forever. The ConfirmAccount extension puts a large dent into that particular spam strategy. A second majore form of spam comes from anonymous editing from ips. We require ip edits to pass a simple captcha to cut down on spam from them. Accounts don't have to fill in the captcha. Does that explanation make sense? BrandonCsSanders (talk) 22:21, 21 May 2015 (PDT)