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User talk:Abd: Difference between revisions
→Arguing with a sysop who is issuing a warning: why it is really a bad idea, and what works
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I don't see why it's a bad idea to argue with a sysop who is issuing a warning. Suppose I accidentally park my car in such a way as to take up two parking spaces on a street instead of one, and a cop comes up to me with his gun drawn, saying, "You parked illegally. If you do that again, I'm going to have to arrest you." I would probably think, "This is strange behavior, since parking illegally is normally not an offense that would warrant making an arrest. Also, why does he have his gun out?" This would make me think the more serious problem was the cop's overreaction, and see that as an issue that might be worthwhile to address. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] ([[User talk:Leucosticte|talk]]) 18:12, 6 January 2015 (UTC) | I don't see why it's a bad idea to argue with a sysop who is issuing a warning. Suppose I accidentally park my car in such a way as to take up two parking spaces on a street instead of one, and a cop comes up to me with his gun drawn, saying, "You parked illegally. If you do that again, I'm going to have to arrest you." I would probably think, "This is strange behavior, since parking illegally is normally not an offense that would warrant making an arrest. Also, why does he have his gun out?" This would make me think the more serious problem was the cop's overreaction, and see that as an issue that might be worthwhile to address. [[User:Leucosticte|Leucosticte]] ([[User talk:Leucosticte|talk]]) 18:12, 6 January 2015 (UTC) | ||
:Right. You don't see it. I've been talking with my daughter about a situation like the one you imagine with the cop. There are times to argue with policy. When the officer has a gun drawn is not one of them. Further, failing to obey the "lawful order" of a police officer can be a crime. "Lawful order" does not mean that he was right. | |||
:Weird example. If a police officer is exhibiting "strange behavior," very good reason why it's a Bad Idea to argue with him. He might shoot you. Since you imagine you don't care, this is merely suicide by cop which you have suggested you want, many times, you don't think of that as a Bad Idea. It's a way to go out in a blaze of glory, you think. In my book it would simply be stupid. You are here, you have an opportunity to enjoy life, and you *can* enjoy life even if there is some crazy officer, but you would rather argue. | |||
:And you do this all the time. You make up completely insane arguments, *just to keep arguing.* Notice the word "argue." You accepted that word, because it is, in fact, what you do. | |||
:You either do not understand people, or you pretend not to. If a police officer is overreacting, if *anyone* is overreacting, arguing with them is downright dangerous. Someone who is "overreacting" is generally operating from the amygdala, with basic survival responses (though they can be heavily rationalized.) Arguing with them will amplify the response. | |||
:No, if a police officer pulls a gun on you over a parking violation, you do not argue. You succinctly assure him that he is in no danger, and ask he what he'd like you to do, and thank him, all in a tone of voice that communicates calm. And then you go to the police station or other authority and tell them what happened. With that same tone of voice. | |||
:If a sysop tells you to stop doing something you think legitimate, you find out how to appeal the decision to the community. Whether or not you even discuss it with the admin is a question, it depends on the nature of the warning. Basic practice: immediately assure the admin that, without his approval or community approval, you will not violate the warning. Then, if it's important to you, you *discuss* it. If you discuss with him, you will want to clarify what he means, so you *ask* him. If you aren't satisfied, then you, with caution, go to the community. | |||
:Look, I've found myself dealing with authorities, over the last year, that had the power and some possible reason to yank custody of my daughter from me. If I had argued with them, the result would have been completely predictable. I had a basis for argument. My adolescent rebel self would definitely have argued. You can't make me. You are wrong. Etc. | |||
:I might eventually have gotten custody back, if my daughter survived. She might not have. | |||
:I made a different choice. I asked the social worker for help. I demonstrated cooperation. I was *not* subservient, I simply did not challenge what did not really matter. My daughter strongly disliked the woman, thinking she was judgmental, and she was. I suggested that she look for how this woman was helping us, and, guess what actually happened? The woman helped. A lot. I could have made her an enemy, easily. However, I knew what made her tick. She has a job, and she sees her job as helping people and protecting children. So, hey, *we are on the same side.* I thanked her and acknowledged her for that. We may not agree on this or that. She told me I had to do this or that, which I didn't do. I did something different, that satisfied her and that was spectacularly successful. That case was closed because there was no more crisis. There was a whole network, a "team," of social workers set up to support my family, at one point we were seeing about six per week. That's all been shut down, now, *because we don't need it.* Everybody won. Well, almost everybody, I'm still working with my ex, she hasn't won yet. But she will, unless she prefers otherwise. --[[User:Abd|Abd]] ([[User talk:Abd|talk]]) 19:38, 6 January 2015 (UTC) | |||