Bureaucrats, checkuser, Interface administrators, interwiki, Administrators (Semantic MediaWiki), Curators (Semantic MediaWiki), Editors (Semantic MediaWiki), staff, Suppressors, Administrators
83,693
edits
WikiIndex talk:Naming conventions: Difference between revisions
m
fix redirects, minor tidying, {{TOCright}}
(→naming places that host lots of wiki: go for it) |
Hoof Hearted (talk | contribs) m (fix redirects, minor tidying, {{TOCright}}) |
||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{TOCright}} | |||
==Choosing a name== | ==Choosing a name== | ||
===If wiki uses various names=== | ===If [[wiki]] uses various names=== | ||
* What if the home link has one name and a different name appears in the welcome message? | * What if the home link has one name and a different name appears in the welcome message? | ||
** Personally I think we should link to the home link, but it may be a judgement call, [[SpookyWiki]] seemed pretty straight forward to me. That text could change anytime, but the FrontPage is always the same, unless there is a code change. [[User:MarkDilley|MarkDilley]] | ** Personally I think we should link to the home link, but it may be a judgement call, [[SpookyWiki]] seemed pretty straight forward to me. That text could change anytime, but the FrontPage is always the same, unless there is a code change. [[User:MarkDilley|MarkDilley]] | ||
| Line 10: | Line 11: | ||
*** We could use the url instead. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 11:44, 30 Jan 2006 (EST) | *** We could use the url instead. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 11:44, 30 Jan 2006 (EST) | ||
*** I agree, and in my humble opinion, some wiki's are not worth having in the system and can be deleted. Of course we have to be a bit careful because sometimes an active wiki is offline for a short period of time, but there are a lot of wiki's that were no more than short lived experiments which are junking up our wiki. --[[Raymond King]] | <small>[[User talk:Rathbone|talk]]</small> 14:37, 30 Jan 2006 (EST) | *** I agree, and in my humble opinion, some wiki's are not worth having in the system and can be deleted. Of course we have to be a bit careful because sometimes an active wiki is offline for a short period of time, but there are a lot of wiki's that were no more than short lived experiments which are junking up our wiki. --[[Raymond King]] | <small>[[User talk:Rathbone|talk]]</small> 14:37, 30 Jan 2006 (EST) | ||
==CamelCase?== | |||
If a wiki doesn't use CamelCase in it's name, do we name their page here using Camel Case? If so, why? And what about the name of the wiki in the template? Is that always the same as the pagename or can it be different? Are their two different conventions? If not, can't we just code that in the template and lose that field? If they are different, we ought to define how so. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 23:02, 27 Feb 2006 (EST) | All the exampleas are [[WikiIndex:CamelCase|CamelCase]], but it is not needed in [[:Category:MediaWiki|MediaWiki]]. Is there a policy of using CamelCase for preference? [[User:Robin Patterson|robinp]] 14:14, 7 Feb 2006 (EST) | ||
:If a wiki doesn't use CamelCase in it's name, do we name their page here using Camel Case? If so, why? And what about the name of the wiki in the template? Is that always the same as the pagename or can it be different? Are their two different conventions? If not, can't we just code that in the template and lose that field? If they are different, we ought to define how so. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 23:02, 27 Feb 2006 (EST) | |||
: As far as I understand the small discussion here at WikiIndex, I think that the WikiIndex page name should be like the name of the wiki. The name in the template is something that I have always made the same as the page name, which is the same as the Wiki. Triple redundancy baby! :-) Just like the categories! Could we code it? Not I, you? :-) (if so, can you map the logo_url to the wiki_url?) [[MarkDilley]] | :: As far as I understand the small discussion here at WikiIndex, I think that the WikiIndex page name should be like the name of the wiki. The name in the template is something that I have always made the same as the page name, which is the same as the Wiki. Triple redundancy baby! :-) Just like the categories! Could we code it? Not I, you? :-) (if so, can you map the logo_url to the wiki_url?) [[MarkDilley]] | ||
I can take a shot at coding that. Where's that list of codes? I can't find it anywhere. It had tons of triple curly brackets on it. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 10:11, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | I can take a shot at coding that. Where's that list of codes? I can't find it anywhere. It had tons of triple curly brackets on it. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 10:11, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
: found it: [[WikiIndex:Magic Words|Magic Words]] [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 12:51, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | |||
: found it: [[Magic Words]] [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 12:51, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | |||
:: I've done it! [[Template talk:Wiki]] has the discussion [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 13:06, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | :: I've done it! [[Template talk:Wiki]] has the discussion [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 13:06, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
Also, it's not clear to me what our convention is. It seems we're using CamelCase most of the time, even when the wiki in question doesn't use CamelCase. I don't understand what our convention is. I bring this up not because I care that much, but because you (Mark) pointed out an inconsistency in my work. I'm not even sure I see the inconsistency, but it's something important to you, so let's document how it should be. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 10:11, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | Also, it's not clear to me what our convention is. It seems we're using CamelCase most of the time, even when the wiki in question doesn't use CamelCase. I don't understand what our convention is. I bring this up not because I care that much, but because you (Mark) pointed out an inconsistency in my work. I'm not even sure I see the inconsistency, but it's something important to you, so let's document how it should be. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 10:11, 2 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
== more camel case and case sensitivity == | ==more camel case and case sensitivity== | ||
Moved from [[Talk: Guidelines]] | Moved from [[Talk: Guidelines]] | ||
Could we avoid using CamelCase here? You don't need it in MediaWiki to make links, it looks unintuitive for a newcomer, and many people (including me) find it ugly. Also, people create duplicate pages more easier, when they use CamelCase. They may create an article about WikTionary, and another about WiktioNary etc. | Could we avoid using CamelCase here? You don't need it in MediaWiki to make links, it looks unintuitive for a newcomer, and many people (including me) find it ugly. Also, people create duplicate pages more easier, when they use CamelCase. They may create an article about WikTionary, and another about WiktioNary etc. | ||
I think that we should capitalize the article titles similarly as Wikipedia does. We should rather write [[some article]] than [[Some Article|some article]] or [[Some Article]]. The latter form is either hard to link or a mispelling in the text. Several proper nouns like the names of wikis would be an exception to this. We should simply look how they spell their community's name in their wiki, and use that form. [[User:Tristram Shandy|Tristram Shandy]] 09:41, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) | I think that we should capitalize the article titles similarly as [[:Category:Wikipedia|Wikipedia]] does. We should rather write [[some article]] than [[Some Article|some article]] or [[Some Article]]. The latter form is either hard to link or a mispelling in the text. Several proper nouns like the names of wikis would be an exception to this. We should simply look how they spell their community's name in their wiki, and use that form. [[User:Tristram Shandy|Tristram Shandy]] 09:41, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) | ||
:Ouch, I didn't notice that the wiki automatically capitalizes all words. This is wrong and should be changed. We are going to have articles about wikis that are in other languages than English. And not all languages use this sort of universal capitalization in titles. Examples of such languages: Finnish, Swedish, Russian, Estonian. You are bound to misspell the names of several wikis in these languages if you use universal capitalization. [[User:Tristram Shandy|Tristram Shandy]] 11:26, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) | :Ouch, I didn't notice that the wiki automatically capitalizes all words. This is wrong and should be changed. We are going to have articles about wikis that are in other languages than English. And not all languages use this sort of universal capitalization in titles. Examples of such languages: Finnish, Swedish, Russian, Estonian. You are bound to misspell the names of several wikis in these languages if you use universal capitalization. [[User:Tristram Shandy|Tristram Shandy]] 11:26, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) | ||
==Case-sensitivity of the first character== | ==Case-sensitivity of the first character== | ||
This idea has its drawbacks, but I still support it: the wiki software shouldn't change the page title to start with a capital letter. Then we could spell the names of wikis as their community wants. Notice that the articles that have a common noun as their title wouldn't have it capitalized (like "some article"). But we could make capitalized redirects to them (like "Some article" → "some article"). Non-capitalized common nouns simply occur more often than capitalized, because there can be a capitalized common nouns only in the beginning of the sentence, in a bulleted list, and probably also in some other special contexts that I don't remember now. | This idea has its drawbacks, but I still support it: the wiki software shouldn't change the page title to start with a capital letter. Then we could spell the names of wikis as their community wants. Notice that the articles that have a common noun as their title wouldn't have it capitalized (like "some article"). But we could make capitalized redirects to them (like "Some article" → "some article"). Non-capitalized common nouns simply occur more often than capitalized, because there can be a capitalized common nouns only in the beginning of the sentence, in a bulleted list, and probably also in some other special contexts that I don't remember now. | ||
| Line 67: | Line 62: | ||
Naming guidelines discussion can move to [[CamelCase or Free links or both]] - I lost in an edit conflict what I had wrote here about the subject, will get back to it later, Best [[MarkDilley]] | Naming guidelines discussion can move to [[CamelCase or Free links or both]] - I lost in an edit conflict what I had wrote here about the subject, will get back to it later, Best [[MarkDilley]] | ||
== CamelCase (with some mention of other capitals and of spacing)== | ==CamelCase (with some mention of other capitals and of spacing)== | ||
===Page names for articles about specific wikis=== | ===Page names for articles about specific wikis=== | ||
Well, since this is a wiki about wikis, the article names for those wikis should reflect the actual name of the wiki. Many wikis have CamelCase names and I believe we should stick with them in that case. For wikis with free link names, we ought to use exactly the form they use, including spaces and capitalization. That's my thought, anyway. [[User:TedErnst|TedErnst]] 17:05, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) | Well, since this is a wiki about wikis, the article names for those wikis should reflect the actual name of the wiki. Many wikis have CamelCase names and I believe we should stick with them in that case. For wikis with free link names, we ought to use exactly the form they use, including spaces and capitalization. That's my thought, anyway. [[User:TedErnst|TedErnst]] 17:05, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) | ||
| Line 98: | Line 93: | ||
::With utmost respect, Mark, you don't "clarify" 100% if you use an expression such as "internal wiki page names" when we have just been discussing how to write the names of wikis in our pages here. So I've duplicated your comments. '''In this section we are talking about page names in WikiIndex other than proper nouns''' (which term includes Wiki names). [[User:Robin Patterson|robinp]] 00:32, 7 Mar 2006 (EST) | ::With utmost respect, Mark, you don't "clarify" 100% if you use an expression such as "internal wiki page names" when we have just been discussing how to write the names of wikis in our pages here. So I've duplicated your comments. '''In this section we are talking about page names in WikiIndex other than proper nouns''' (which term includes Wiki names). [[User:Robin Patterson|robinp]] 00:32, 7 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
I get the impression from the above that Ted definitely favours the [ | I get the impression from the above that Ted definitely favours the [[wp:Manual of Style#Headings|Wikipedia]] style (sentence case, ie only the first letter capitalised except for proper nouns), as I do, and that Mark doesn't mind and doesn't want to make rules about it. | ||
* I actually prefer CamelCase for internal work, but felt it too hard to argue for it in a "WikipediaWorld." I prefer CamelCase based on my prefered way to show internal links and a good way to help people understand wiki. [[MarkDilley]] | <small>[[User talk:MarkDilley|talk]]</small> | * I actually prefer CamelCase for internal work, but felt it too hard to argue for it in a "WikipediaWorld." I prefer CamelCase based on my prefered way to show internal links and a good way to help people understand wiki. [[MarkDilley]] | <small>[[User talk:MarkDilley|talk]]</small> | ||
| Line 115: | Line 110: | ||
:::''I think that the name for this page mentioned should be Help:EditingImages'' - clear and as link language, spot on. [[MarkDilley]] So if we are talking standards, I would be in favor of camel case internal wiki links. | :::''I think that the name for this page mentioned should be Help:EditingImages'' - clear and as link language, spot on. [[MarkDilley]] So if we are talking standards, I would be in favor of camel case internal wiki links. | ||
== removed from page == | ==removed from page== | ||
I removed this: '''We name the pages with upper and lower case characters, capitalising each word''' because I think that we name the page as exact as it is possible to do so. One of the advatages I see to FreeLinking [[MarkDilley]] | <small>[[User talk:MarkDilley|talk]]</small> | I removed this: '''We name the pages with upper and lower case characters, capitalising each word''' because I think that we name the page as exact as it is possible to do so. One of the advatages I see to FreeLinking [[MarkDilley]] | <small>[[User talk:MarkDilley|talk]]</small> | ||
: I totally agree. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 15:43, 8 Mar 2006 (EST) | : I totally agree. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 15:43, 8 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
== Naming Wikimedia wikis == | ==Naming Wikimedia wikis== | ||
I think that the present guidelines present a problem with naming articles for Wikimedia wikis and any similar wikis. http://wikipedia.org, for example, is just a gateway to wikipedias in over 120 languages. The [[Wikipedia]] article should be a general overview of those Wikipedias. I think there should also be WikiIndex articles on at least the Top 10 or Top 20 Wikipedias. For this to happen, the article names should probably be the Wiki's URL (minus http://), so the article for the English-language Wikipedia would be at [[en.wikipedia.org]], the Japanese-languages WIkipedia would be at [[ja.wikipedia.org]], etc. [[User:BlankVerse|BlankVerse]] 05:23, 16 Mar 2006 (EST) | I think that the present guidelines present a problem with naming articles for Wikimedia wikis and any similar wikis. http://wikipedia.org, for example, is just a gateway to wikipedias in over 120 languages. The [[Wikipedia]] article should be a general overview of those Wikipedias. I think there should also be WikiIndex articles on at least the Top 10 or Top 20 Wikipedias. For this to happen, the article names should probably be the Wiki's URL (minus http://), so the article for the English-language Wikipedia would be at [[en.wikipedia.org]], the Japanese-languages WIkipedia would be at [[ja.wikipedia.org]], etc. [[User:BlankVerse|BlankVerse]] 05:23, 16 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
| Line 127: | Line 121: | ||
: I just found [[Simple English Wikipedia]]. That would be a 3rd option for naming conventions. [[English Wikipedia]], [[Japanese Wikipedia]] etc. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 13:42, 16 Mar 2006 (EST) | : I just found [[Simple English Wikipedia]]. That would be a 3rd option for naming conventions. [[English Wikipedia]], [[Japanese Wikipedia]] etc. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 13:42, 16 Mar 2006 (EST) | ||
== naming places that host lots of wiki == | ==naming places that host lots of wiki== | ||
I think I messed up with [[Near-Time]] and [[StikiPad]]. They are technically not wiki -- they are [[WikiFarm]]s that allow lots of people to set up lots of wiki. So ... to be consistent with what people seem to already be doing, (such as [[:Category:TaoRiver]] and [[Pbwiki]] which redirects to [[:Category:Pbwiki]]), should we "move" (rename) them into the Category: namespace, a sub-category of [[:Category:WikiFarm]]? | |||
I think I messed up with [[Near-Time]] and [[StikiPad]]. | |||
They are technically not wiki -- they are [[WikiFarm]]s | |||
that allow lots of people to set up lots of wiki. | |||
So ... to be consistent with what people seem to already be doing, | |||
(such as [[:Category:TaoRiver]] and [[Pbwiki]] which redirects to [[:Category:Pbwiki]]), | |||
should we "move" (rename) them into the Category: namespace, a sub-category of [[:Category:WikiFarm]] | |||
--[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] 23:17, 15 October 2006 (EDT) | I expected the people who set up Near-Time and StikiPad -- obviously familiar with how wonderful wiki are -- to have a prominent link to a wiki holding FAQs about that host. I am a bit surprised that not only is there no prominent link, I can't even find an obscure link. I'm starting to suspect -- maybe there is no wiki about Near-Time or StikiPad? --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] 23:17, 15 October 2006 (EDT) | ||
: Mark and I started to move wiki farms and wiki engines to their respective categories, but the effort petered out. Feel free to pick it back up. There are templates, I think. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 18:10, 16 October 2006 (EDT) | : Mark and I started to move wiki farms and wiki engines to their respective categories, but the effort petered out. Feel free to pick it back up. There are templates, I think. [[TedErnst]] | <small>[[User talk:TedErnst|talk]]</small> 18:10, 16 October 2006 (EDT) | ||