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Talk:WikiWikiWeb: Difference between revisions

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(→‎What was Wards last edit in C2?: Ward does not care at all.)
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In other words: Ward was forced to cripple the wiki by cutting off some scripts in order to secure the safe operation of the server his own business site was hosted on. He did not care to notify the public or the people assuming themselves to be the community of this antique wiki any further for about a month until obviously some people pestered him to say something. Then he did nothing until late 2014 when Dave Voorhis pestered him again via facebook. So he got fed up and finally locked down the wiki to ensure his own peace. He also did not care to notify the public about the lock-down until today. [[User:Manorainjan|Manorainjan]] ([[User talk:Manorainjan|talk]]) 13:54, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
In other words: Ward was forced to cripple the wiki by cutting off some scripts in order to secure the safe operation of the server his own business site was hosted on. He did not care to notify the public or the people assuming themselves to be the community of this antique wiki any further for about a month until obviously some people pestered him to say something. Then he did nothing until late 2014 when Dave Voorhis pestered him again via facebook. So he got fed up and finally locked down the wiki to ensure his own peace. He also did not care to notify the public about the lock-down until today. [[User:Manorainjan|Manorainjan]] ([[User talk:Manorainjan|talk]]) 13:54, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
''Is this your attempt at apologising for causing the vandalism that lead to the WikiWikiWeb being locked?  If not, it should be.''
''Note that Ward is very busy, precisely because of the success of WikiWikiWeb and the Wiki movement he started.  That's why he's slow to respond -- not because he's disinterested, but because he's busy, and he's busy because the WikiWikiWeb was successful.''
''You're absolutely right that Ward "got fed up".  He got fed up with you.  You vandalised the WikiWikiWeb, and that's why Ward closed it.  Had you not vandalised it, it would almost certainly still be open.  He could have closed it at any time, but he kept it open for us.  He closed it because of you.''
''Rather than trying to put your own spin on the history of the WikiWikiWeb here, you should leave it alone, because you have done -- and by editing here, continue to do -- nothing but harm to it.''
''For that, you should be ashamed of yourself.''

Revision as of 14:52, 26 January 2015

Is there a reason we're calling him Howard instead of Ward, that he uses? TedErnst | talk 16:18, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

"Howard" is his legal name. "Ward" is the name that people on WikiWikiWeb usually use.

Okay, so why are we using Howard when the whole world knows him as Ward? TedErnst | talk 16:56, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

Because it is more formal.

And why is that a good thing? TedErnst | talk 17:13, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

Yes, what is so wrong with using PlainTalk words and names that are easy to understand? --DavidCary 14:55, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

merge

I suggest merging the WikiWikiWeb article into the Portland Pattern Repository article. Both of them are about the same wiki -- the first wiki, the wiki that WardCunningham started, right? --DavidCary 14:58, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

Seems reasonable, although I'd have Portland Pattern Repository redirect to this article, as it is currently and probably best known as WikiWikiWeb. --MarvelZuvembie 20:17, 3 July 2010 (EDT)
I now found another Page PortlandPatternRepository. I checked the URLs and it seems that WikiWikiWeb and PPR are indeed different wikis. Maybe the WikiWikiWeb was a child of the PPR, started as they discovered that there is more than patterns to be done by using this new technology? It seems that the PPR was the first wiki (without beeing named "wiki"). The best would be to ask Ward for the facts. Here some illustrating Links
Best regards --Wolf | talk 03:59, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

As far as I understand, PortlandPatternRepository is the first wiki and was nicknamed the WikiWikiWeb. Will double check with WardCunningham Best, MarkDilley 5 July 2010

Hi Mark, thank you in advance for doing that! I read on http://c2.com/ppr/, that the space named as "wiki" was created for exploring the not-quite-yet patterns we all carry around in our heads... :-) It seems to me that they discovered what wiki really could be after using it for a while for pattern collectiong. And, I'm very interested in Ward's answer. --Wolf | talk 16:07, 5 July 2010 (EDT)

So, what did Mark find out since 2010?

As I see it, Portland Pattern Repository is an archive. No chance to edit. No new edits in this millennium. ((It might really been the first wiki ever)).--Manorainjan (talk) 10:50, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

This seems not to be the full truth: this wiki was dedicated to a specific problem. Maybe you can read something about it in the artima article Exploring with Wiki. The wiki idea evolved since this first(!) successful approach; even today it's possible to contribute to this old wiki (if you meet their topic(s) and style).
Best --Wolf | talk 10:19, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
Only now I see that you are talking about Portland Pattern Repository not WikiWikiWeb. I know that it was hard to distinguish these both wikis (or was it only one)?...
I think one of them could get the goal reached status... Best --Wolf | talk 11:46, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

The PPP is not a wiki I think. Repository means a place to store something. It is more a collection of what came out of Wards Wiki, the result of refactoring, an essence of the result until Jun 4, 1996. After this date refactoring seems to be thought of going on the wiki itself because the wiki way was experienced and trusted by then. Technically PPP is different. The pages there end on *.HTML, Links are different and so on. Wards website has the same minimalistic look and feel as PPP and wiki have. Therefore they can easily be confused. PPP may retain its own page on WikiIndex for historical purpose but should clearly be marked as not being a wiki. I see it more as an intellectual backup of most of the good on Wiki from start to 1996. Manorainjan (talk) 11:57, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you are right: PPR seems to be an archive. Categorizing it with not a wiki (here in WikiIndex) seems right, but simply doing so could cause problems... --Wolf | talk 12:13, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

I turned it into a simple page.Manorainjan (talk) 12:40, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Resources for use with this wiki

There is a script to be run by wp:Greasemonkey which is mentioned on MoreAboutCodes with an outdated link:

// ==UserScript==
// @name        C2 Wiki – Fill In Code Word When Editing
// @namespace   roryokane.com
// @description Automatically fills in the code word (CAPTCHA) “567” on the edit page of the C2 wiki, WikiWikiWeb.
// @include     http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?edit=*
// @version     1
// @grant       none
// ==/UserScript==

// "Type the code word, 567, here [...]"
var textField = document.getElementsByName("code")[0];
var codeWord = "567"; // hard-coded; I’ve never personally seen it be anything else.
textField.value = codeWord;

Archived: File:Source for C2 Wiki – Fill In Code Word When Editing Userscripts.pdf

What was Wards last edit in C2?

I'm not sure how you're determining "his last edit", because there have certainly been signed edits by Ward since 2005. See, for example (which I found by taking random stab at the History), http://c2.com/wiki/history/WikiWikiSystemNotice/893 which dates from June 10, 2010. (See http://c2.com/wiki/history/WikiWikiSystemNotice/ for dates.) That trivially refutes your assertion. There are newer edits which may either have been signed and subsequently deleted as the content was refactored, or which were unsigned, and I'm sure others can be found in the History. Also, in keeping with the trend toward unsigned edits since roughly 2005, Ward didn't always sign his contributions. 12:18, 26 January 2015‎ 195.194.178.189 (Talk)‎ (moved here from document page by Manorainjan)

  • This is rather a good example of Ward not editing his wiki.

As one can see on the list of the history pages of the system notice board of WikiWikiWeb on 11th May 2010 appearing on history page 880 one askes about the outage at 10th of May. They did not get any answer from Ward until a whole month later on 893 10th of June 2010:

We've had two unrelated server problems that have lead to the service interruptions noted above.

The operating system failed due to high process load caused by search engine bots getting caught up in old slow scripts that were not properly listed in robots.txt. Unfortunately some mis-communication with the co-location facility led to a reboot begin delayed until the following Monday morning.

QuickDiff was one of several scripts that were removed until a recently exploited vulnerability could be corrected. (I did so this morning.) I apologize for letting this chore drag on for so long and for not posting situation updates here promptly.

As always, I appreciate this community's willingness to carry on with the quirks of this historic, but aging site. -- WardCunningham

This proves three things:

  • Ward is responding to serious technical problems whenever the server is affected which is the same server his business homepage is hosted on.
  • He is likely to neglect the questions of the so called community about matters serious to them for quite a while.
  • He regarded this wiki to be 'historic' and 'ageing' defining it as a matter of the past from his perspective.

Therefore he did not contribute to this wiki any more. He only kept it up and running from a purely technical perspective of the one who has back-end access and the one who can remove scripts that proved causing server-problems.

In other words: Ward was forced to cripple the wiki by cutting off some scripts in order to secure the safe operation of the server his own business site was hosted on. He did not care to notify the public or the people assuming themselves to be the community of this antique wiki any further for about a month until obviously some people pestered him to say something. Then he did nothing until late 2014 when Dave Voorhis pestered him again via facebook. So he got fed up and finally locked down the wiki to ensure his own peace. He also did not care to notify the public about the lock-down until today. Manorainjan (talk) 13:54, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Is this your attempt at apologising for causing the vandalism that lead to the WikiWikiWeb being locked? If not, it should be.

Note that Ward is very busy, precisely because of the success of WikiWikiWeb and the Wiki movement he started. That's why he's slow to respond -- not because he's disinterested, but because he's busy, and he's busy because the WikiWikiWeb was successful.

You're absolutely right that Ward "got fed up". He got fed up with you. You vandalised the WikiWikiWeb, and that's why Ward closed it. Had you not vandalised it, it would almost certainly still be open. He could have closed it at any time, but he kept it open for us. He closed it because of you.

Rather than trying to put your own spin on the history of the WikiWikiWeb here, you should leave it alone, because you have done -- and by editing here, continue to do -- nothing but harm to it.

For that, you should be ashamed of yourself.