WikiIndex talk:Community portal/Archive 4

for talk amongst or to sysops / admins and bureaucrats,
please go to: category talk: Active administrators of this wiki

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WikiIndex talk: Community portal archives of older talk pages: 1 (2006), 2 (2007–13), 3 (2014–16), 4 (2017)

NOTE: this 'WikiIndex talk:Community portal/Archive 4' page is an archive of older discussions. Please place new comments on the currently active talk page of this archive, thanks!

— * 2017 * —

Happy New Year!

WikiIndex wishlist What would you like to see happen here in 2017? How would you like to see the site change and grow? Koavf (talk) 09:19, 31 December 2016 (PST)

Semantic MediaWiki

Do folks have any ideas on how to show off our Semantic MediaWiki? ~~ MarkDilley

I did not know that we are here to show of. --Manorainjan 07:53, 25 January 2017 (PST)

Showing off What do you have in mind, Mark? From what I've seen, the use of SMW is pretty "under-the-hood" rather than on display as such... Do you want to have tools to query our site like at Wikidata? Koavf (talk) 08:58, 25 January 2017 (PST)

Where are the tools for Semantic wiki here? It has been a while and I have forgotten. Best, MarkDilley25 January 2017

Namespaces Mark, you can find them from Special:AllPages starting here. Namespaces such as "Form" and "Type" (unused) are all SMW namespaces. Koavf (talk) 22:31, 24 January 2017 (PST)

Manorainjan

It's time to stop this once and for all. Said user has a track record of pestering and at times even insulting other users, in fact an admin left for a while because of him. It seems to me like Manor acts as though he's some sort of "mini-admin" most of the time, and frankly I think he needs to be blocked. What do you guys think? --This is MY book, and I'm gonna READ IT!!! 09:44, 25 January 2017 (PST)

Guidelines I have always argued that a large part of the problem is that we don't have many guidelines. I don't like rules generally but if we don't have any kind of documentation to appeal to, someone can always say, "But I didn't know I couldn't do this". (Even if the infraction is pretty obvious social etiquette.) I think that we should be more explicit about what is expected and then when it's transgressed, it's easier to point out how and why there would be some consequence. Koavf (talk) 11:06, 25 January 2017 (PST)

I am a known wiki person, but I will not reveal my name to avoid problems with the aforementioned user. I have had several problems with him and came to the conclusion that he is a stupid provocateur. He should be blocked from the whole internet. --46.166.148.154 10:33, 26 January 2017 (PST)

Says someone who is globally blocked over all WikiMedia-projects ;-) --Manorainjan 12:06, 26 January 2017 (PST)

You know that I am using open proxies (which is blocked on Wikimedia for obvious reasons) to avoid you to come and stalk me under my house. ;)

Manorainjan - do you really think it is appropriate to accuse people of behaving like Nazis - as you did in your edit summary of this edit - http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=WikiIndex_talk:Community_portal&oldid=194882. Frankly, that is truly despicable behaviour, and you, as a German should know better.

As to lack of 'policy' here on WikiIndex - I think this is a red herring. Let us be very clear here. Manor has had multiple, repeated WARNINGS over his conduct and behaviour. When Manor refuses to comply with very specific requests from not only long-term and highly valued editors - and then has the utter arrogance to refuse when told buy Admins and Crats - that, to me, and I would guess the whole of the wikisphere is ABSOLUTE grounds for banning. The fact that he was so belligerently arrogant to effectively force a Crat to step away from WikiIndex - that just shows his fundamental character! And that type of character is NOT helpful in building a wiki community. And since I took my lengthy sabbatical, I have discovered MANY subsequent editors to ask that Manor be blocked for his repeated abusive behaviour.

Quite frankly, if Manor is allowed to continue here on WikiIndex, then WikiIndex will eventually self-destruct. I am again frankly shocked over the very real STAGNATION which WikiIndex has succumbed to since Manors arrival. Sure, there are a few dedicated editors here who try to do their bit - but are overwhelmed by constant fire-fighting caused by Manor. But I have looked at many of arguably the most important entries here on WikiIndex - and I was shocked to find they had NOT been updated for nigh-on THREE YEARS!

In light of the above - and particularly the blatant racist comment by Manor - I will be blocking Manor for a period of 7 days. Manor needs to use these 7 days to honestly consider if he wishes to comply with the views and requests of the remainder of the WikiIndex community. If Manor tries to bypass his 7 day block - I will DOUBLE the duration of his block - and will concurrently double his block for each and every attempt he may use to bypass the block.

To the rest of the WikiIndex community, and especially MarkDilley - I expect you to support my action to block Manor for a short period of time. It would be nice if we put the interests of WikiIndex first, rather than letting someone stay who not only has destroyed the friendly community we once had here, but who has also failed to grasp the fundamental ethos of WikiIndex.

Comments, please.  :-) Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 09:53, 27 January 2017 (PST)

 Support ~~ MarkDilley

 Support I'll be honest, I'm shocked Manor was unblocked the first time Hoof tried to ban him. He is truly pugnacious, as evidenced by the aforementioned racist comment and his post on my talk page. --This is MY book, and I'm gonna READ IT!!! 15:34, 27 January 2017 (PST)

 Support Obviously. And I will definitely support any further action you take on this. Maybe I'm too naive or too much of a nice guy but I've experienced this on another wiki as well where someone makes what are definitely constructive and useful edits (and so is not solely a troll or vandal) but additionally is so consistently rude and off-putting that he has to go. Simply put, wikis are built around communities and if we have to lose one prolific and generally knowledgeable user because he pushes away everyone else through a combination of logical fallacies, abrasiveness, and martyrdom syndrome, then it's clear which one is preferable. I honestly don't want to lose him as an editor nor did I want to lose the valuable contributions of the other person at the other wiki I mentioned but for the well-being of the community even at the risk of a small set-back in the creation of content, it has to happen. I have been too rosy-eyed in the past and I still am--I sincerely hope that Manorainjan just cools off and looks at this objectively to see that his behavior is (willfully) off-putting and that others are not ganging up on him. Too many olive branches and too much pleading--please grow up and just be a decent person. Koavf (talk) 22:49, 27 January 2017 (PST)

 Support --TheTVFan (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2017 (PST)

 Strong support I've had issues with this user while I was editing as an IP. I'll point to just a few out of a whole string of examples. The user refused to allow me to change the Wiki.Wiki article to "inactive" after no wiki requests had been answered for over three months, and, even after I explained my reasoning, did the same thing again. In addition, he also refused to let me blank and request deletion of my own static IP talk page not once, not twice, but three times. He also reverted my edits to the WikiBridge article that classified the wiki "dead" - my reason being that despite technically still existing, a message was left on the Main page saying "This wiki no longer exists" and the supposed replacement site archived in the page history also has been closed. I could probably find more examples, but I think I've made my point. Users like this should not be allowed to contribute to any community-based environment, especially when they don't explain half of their edit reverts! I do agree though that more policy documentation is needed. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 16:41, 2 February 2017 (PST)

Give him a warning and see if that suffices. If not, revisit the issue later. He might not play well with others, but he puts in a lot of work on the project. With regard to racist remarks that may or may not have been made, bear in mind that with the election of Donald Trump, the era of political correctness is over. Leucosticte (talk) 22:44, 2 February 2017 (PST)

Comment According to the users above, he has already had multiple warnings and temporary blocks, yet has refused to listen. Also, please keep politics out of community discussions. Many people, myself included, will disagree with your point of view. Thank you. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 04:19, 3 February 2017 (PST)

Was he given an official warning, or was it just a bunch of people coming up to him at various times and saying, "I find your behavior objectionable; cut that out" which led to him saying, "Who are YOU to tell me what to do" or "I did nothing wrong" or whatever? I don't recall there being a situation where MarkDilley told him, "Hey, knock it off or I'm gonna block you." Had that happened a long time ago, maybe Sean wouldn't have gone on his hiatus.

Anyway, if someone got offended by a racist remark, that means politics already got injected into the discussion, because racism is very political (what with all the white nationalist movements coming out of the shadows these days). I'm not saying we have any people like that around here, but entryist SJWs have been known to go around the Internet trying to get codes of conduct enacted (formally or informally) banning racist remarks, so that they can censor their opponents. To the extent this is an opinion poll of the users, I'm registering my dissent with norms of political correctness.

Having said that, if someone called me a honky, I'd be offended, but no more than if he called me an idiot or some other insult. Leucosticte (talk) 06:50, 3 February 2017 (PST)

It was an official warning - from a crat, no less - and he was blocked after refusing to listen and then he socked over said block. --This is MY book, and I'm gonna READ IT!!! 08:35, 3 February 2017 (PST)

Official warnings Yes, I have warned him on multiple instances in the time that I have been an admin/bureaucrat/staff member. There isn't a process for "official" warnings but it's also clear that if you're harassing and annoying multiple users over the course of years and driving them away from the project, then something has to give: either you get blocked or everyone else concedes defeat and makes this your personal playground. Not having many official rules is nice in a way but it also ends up being a problem at times. Lacking that, common sense is a decent rule of thumb (which is also imperfect). We also don't have a particular rule about offensive speech and I generally think that's a good thing as well but there is also speech that serves no purpose other than to irritate or harass and the community stands nothing to gain by having someone be provocative without repercussions. Koavf (talk) 08:55, 3 February 2017 (PST)

I consider any warning from a sysop to be an official warning. Leucosticte (talk) 17:57, 3 February 2017 (PST)

Comment I do note that the user being discussed is currently blocked, which I don't think is very fair. Assuming that I am not mistaken, I believe what is being discussed here is an indefinite block or even a permanent ban from WikiIndex. In either case, the user in question should be allowed to defend themselves or otherwise comment before the discussion is closed. If the user makes disruptive comments to the discussion, then they should be blocked. But not before they'd had a chance to defend their actions. Just my personal opinion, but I think that it is important to consider. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 09:04, 3 February 2017 (PST)

As other users stated, he has been warned multiple times. When his block expires, he will be able to explain and defend his actions. --TheTVFan (talk) 09:12, 3 February 2017 (PST)

Ban You are mistaken, Jamie--he is blocked for seven days (expiring soon) and I am certainly willing to let him contribute if all he wants to do is contribute. Someone who is simply trolling will be blocked indefinitely, no problem. Someone who has many demonstrably constructive edits but who is also abrasive is a lot trickier and that's why I hope that he can come back and play nice. He's had plenty of opportunities to defend himself which mainly amount to tu quoque fallacies and mind-games ("yeah but you did [x]" or "how can you prove that I intended [y]"). It's inarguable that his behavior is inappropriate and lacking a clear policy, the repeated warnings over the course of years should be sufficient. I sincerely hope that it's onwards and upwards once his block expires if he chooses to return. Koavf (talk) 09:17, 3 February 2017 (PST)

Request for Comments

User:HAL-9000 This user emailed me personally asking for an unblock. I explained in email and via his talk that I will be holding him to extra scrutiny and may have to consult IP logs due to the nature of prior disruption. His unblock was adjusted from "indefinite" to a few days from now to solicit community feedback. I'm a believer in second chances and I remember him being a productive member of the community. Thoughts? Koavf (talk) 13:24, 4 February 2017 (PST)

As I saw from his profile that he made some productive edits,  Support, but the community should keep in mind that I didn't know him before, so I'm not aware of his previous actions. TheTVFan (talk) 13:37, 4 February 2017 (PST)

Also, I received a private e-mail from him asking to remove his personal information on Community Portal. For the admin team: I have removed it, please revert my edit if you think it's not okay. I have unblocked him assuming good faith, but will be monitoring his edits. --TheTVFan (talk) 04:49, 5 February 2017 (PST)

Lift infinite blocks for IP-spammers?

I think that IP-spammers should not be blocked for infinite, because they use proxies or dynamic IPs. I think a 1-year block is enough. Comment with your ideas below :-) --TheTVFan (talk) 04:34, 5 February 2017 (PST)

•  Support — Indefinitely blocking IP's is never a good thing except in the most serious circumstances, and it is not allowed on WMF unless deemed absolutely necessary (and any indefinitely blocked IP's are subject to review). Regardless of the reason, I'd say 365 days should be the maximum block for any IP address. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 09:15, 5 February 2017 (PST)
•  Support — A long block on an IP is frequently unnecessary as someone is likely to just move on after [x] days/weeks. There are about 700 IPs which are indefinitely blocked and I'm removing them for the ones that are a decade old--very unlikely they will cause any problems. And if they do, we have several active admins here. Koavf (talk) 10:50, 5 February 2017 (PST)
•  Support — I agree about the one-year maximum. Leucosticte (talk) 20:41, 5 February 2017 (PST)
•  Support — I fundamentally agree with the one-year maximum block for spammers from a single IP address, but with the added proviso that should the IP user return to spam again after the expiry of their previous block, they will be blocked indefinitely. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 06:45, 6 December 2017 (PST)

Category:Inactive

The Inactive category is deprecated and has been replaced by Dormant. Using the "inactive" entry returns an error message saying that it's not in the list of possible values, even before I deleted it from the wiki status comparison table just now. I would propose removing all entries from the category and updating them with a different status, but the issue is that there are 777 pages in the category. This would take forever to orphan. Advice? OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 09:51, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Those kind of of edits should be done by a bot. --Manorainjan 10:06, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Botwork I am doing them with AWB and I have tagged my account as a bot at the moment. There is also Category:Pages that use Template:Inactive from Template:Inactive which should be emptied and all instances of Template:Inactive should be converted to Template:Wiki with status=Dormant but in the meantime, this will fix all of the error thrown up by the invalid status. Thanks, Jamie. Koavf (talk) 10:14, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Deprecation It looks like User:MarkDilley had some reservations about deprecating the template. Mark, if you're viewing this, can you explain more? Koavf (talk) 10:29, 6 February 2017 (PST)

It's true that the Inactive category can be considered deprecated, but there wasn't an official community consensus about it. I also agree that the edits should be done with a bot, to avoid obstructing RecentChanges. --TheTVFan (talk) 10:56, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Bot flag I amended my user rights so that it would pass through the bot filter but it evidently didn't work--not sure why. Sorry for clogging up the Recent Changes but it's a done deal now. Koavf (talk) 11:14, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Not a problem. I wanted to remove "Inactive" status from WikiStatus template, as we don't use it anymore, but I see it was alredy done. Good work. :-)--TheTVFan (talk) 11:38, 6 February 2017 (PST)

The change is incomplete. It is not sufficient, to change the status. One has to rework the template intro: "Inactive|" must be replaced by "Wiki/n|", 3 SPACE removed, may be more. --Manorainjan 12:15, 6 February 2017 (PST)

 Support. This should be done, manually or with a bot. --TheTVFan (talk) 12:17, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Change Manorainjan, which template needs to be changed...? Koavf (talk) 12:28, 6 February 2017 (PST)

The change towards inactive caused the logos to be disconnected from the wiki page. Therefore we got loads of orphaned logos. We would see their destination only after this rework. Some logos got deleted in the meantime, because someone thought they are not needed. --Manorainjan 12:20, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Logos Can you give an example of one? I can undelete or re-add as necessary. Koavf (talk) 12:28, 6 February 2017 (PST)

I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that, because HAL has flooded RC with vandal-edits. --Manorainjan 12:35, 6 February 2017 (PST)

He was just blocked. Thank you for warning us about this user. --TheTVFan (talk) 12:39, 6 February 2017 (PST)

User HAL-9000: what about his new edit?

I blocked him because of this vandalism edit. I think we need a strong community support to unblock him. Please reply with  Support or  Oppose.--TheTVFan (talk) 11:45, 6 February 2017 (PST)

 Oppose: seems to be a blanking vandal --TheTVFan (talk) 11:45, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Blanking Page blanking can be unintentional. You've allowed the user the ability to edit his talk page so he can explain himself there. Not sure if you're seeing this, HAL but what happened here? Koavf (talk) 11:51, 6 February 2017 (PST)

I have intentionally done it, to have a response from him. However, I have temporarily unblocked his account to let him answer here. --TheTVFan (talk) 11:52, 6 February 2017 (PST)

I have undone almost all his vandalism. Please see if I forgot some pages, and rollback them. Best, --TheTVFan (talk) 13:10, 6 February 2017 (PST)

 Weak oppose As this does seem to be a vandalism-only account, I would typically oppose an unblock. However, one thing I would like to mention is the possibility of a malicious bot. The page blankings seem to be happening all at once, so I would wonder if either the user is running a bot and is not performing the actions themselves, or, at the worst, their account has been compromised by malicious software. I would recommend a CheckUser to check for spambot IP's before going any further. Depending on the CU results, my opinion may change later. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 13:37, 6 February 2017 (PST)

This was to be expected. I did not say anything, because actually everybody had been warned: dif. The claim, that the account had been hacked is old ... who believes such claims? --Manorainjan 14:19, 6 February 2017 (PST)

I don't rule anything out until there is evidence either confirming it or discrediting it. Therefore, I will not identify the claim of a hacked account as false unless CU data or other sufficient evidence prove it to be so (in summary: I believe everything in situations like this until evidence discredits options). OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 14:59, 6 February 2017 (PST)

 Support Give the benefit of the doubt; if he's a vandal, he'll mess up again soon enough, and you can reblock him. Leucosticte (talk) 15:35, 6 February 2017 (PST)

Check User If the actual person running the account and doing constructive things wants a new account, he can request one. In the meantime, there are long blocks put on IPs associated with this account and an indefinite one for this user. I generally don't like (implicitly) publishing IPs but the user was warned that this would be possible and his IPs have been published here before, so c'est la vie. If his machines are compromised, then he really needs to scrub his hard drives. Koavf (talk) 18:46, 6 February 2017 (PST)

I am TheTVFan. The vandal probably shares my IPs because he is my brother and we live in the same house. Please unblock me as I still want to edit here. 103.10.197.194 06:24, 7 February 2017 (PST)

Language conventions

I noticed that some WMF entires have varying language titles. For example, the French Wikipedia has the word "French" written in English. However, others have the English title redirecting to the title in the respective language (Spanish Wikipedia redirects to Español Wikipedia). I don't think we should have two different styles of language in page titles. Which one is technically correct? I'm fine with either, as long as it's consistent. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 07:59, 8 February 2017 (PST)

Agreed Do we need to even break these up by language? In the case of Wikipedia that may be helpful just because of how large that particular project is but these are really all the same wiki, just in different editions. Koavf (talk) 09:07, 8 February 2017 (PST)

I think it's okay to have separate entries, but I just feel that they all need to follow the same naming conventions. We shouldn't have some of them titled in the language of the project they discuss, and then have some others titled in English. What we have with Wikipedia at least is the opposite. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 19:00, 8 February 2017 (PST)

Freenode IRC

Hi, I just wanted to make an announcement that I have created a Freenode IRC channel for WikiIndex. The channel is #wiki-index (note the hyphen!) Please feel free to join and hang out. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 08:08, 9 February 2017 (PST)

Have you registered the channel? --This is MY book, and I'm gonna READ IT!!! 08:36, 9 February 2017 (PST)

Indeed I have, I'm just not there right now. I'll log on now. I'm not just going to idle in an empty channel. I'll be around if the channel ever gets active. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 08:49, 9 February 2017 (PST)

Former channel For several years, we had an IRC channel at irc://irc.freenode.net/wikiindex but it was removed in 2012 by User:Elassint. Koavf (talk) 09:26, 9 February 2017 (PST)

What about the Etherpad? Manorainjan 09:41, 9 February 2017 (PST)

I like IRC better. I saw the former channel and it appears that the Freenode administration locked it due to inactivity. That's why I created the new channel. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 09:51, 9 February 2017 (PST)

WikiIndex Twitter account

See here. Does anyone think that it would be useful to publish with this? Possibly highlight entries that here that are particularly interesting or fleshed out? Does anyone have any other ideas about social media platforms that would work well with our site? Koavf (talk) 02:31, 11 February 2017 (PST)

To whom is the account administered by? Of its total of three tweets, two of them are spam! Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 10:18, 10 May 2017 (PDT)

 Agreed This is clearly not an offical Twitter account created by staff, or even if it was, it has clearly been compromised. Seems like an impersonation to me, but either way, it's not a legitimate account (anymore). Therefore, it should not be used for official publications and I'd consider reporting it to Twitter sysadmins for review. I think that they can delete impersonations and ban compromised accounts. -- Amanda (talk) 13:35, 24 May 2017 (PDT)

It is an official account, the "spam" were tweets that were meant for another account at that time, the Twitter mobile app isn't the best at delineating accounts. I have credentials for the account if this community wants to work with Twitter in growing. And as far as staff, there really isn't staff per say. There are people who are sometimes paid to do backend work, at least that was the last thing I knew about the site. Best, MarkDilley

Mark, In which way could a twitter account help WikiIndex growing in quality or quantity? Please outline a scenario. Please share Your vision with us. --Manorainjan 03:08, 30 May 2017 (PDT)

Code of Conduct

We've talked around this several times and for the time being, this is our provisional 'Code of Conduct'. The language may be modified before it's published here and the community may have ways to adapt it but this is the policy as it stands now. If you find users who are transgressing it, please refer them to this document: http://citizencodeofconduct.org/ This shouldn't be particularly surprising info but I'd recommend that everyone take a look at it to familiarize yourself with how it may work for us. Koavf (talk) 15:07, 13 February 2017 (PST)

 Support --This is MY book, and I'm gonna READ IT!!! 10:40, 14 February 2017 (PST)

A database query error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.

As per subject heading, I have been getting intermittent glitches here on WikiIndex displaying the above error message. If anyone else experiences the same, can you please log it here, thanks. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 05:51, 25 April 2017 (PDT)

Mass creation of user pages for accounts unused - why?

I have discovered a huge mass creation of otherwise absent user pages. They are usually totally devoid of content, and were clearly NOT created by their respective user. So what is their purpose? The long established wiki convention is that only the user themselves create their own user page. The other long established wiki convention is that blank pages should be red links.

Can someone point me to the consensus of where this drastic change was agreed upon please? Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 10:38, 10 May 2017 (PDT)

I don't think that such a consensus exists, at least from what I can tell. However, I would  Oppose these pages being nuked. I personally like created blank user pages for inactive users rather than dozens of redlinks in the user list. Just looks better in terms of interface IMHO. -- Amanda (talk) 13:32, 24 May 2017 (PDT)

If no consensus existed, the action should not have been carried out! WikiIndex is about documenting wikis, the software which makes a wiki, the companies who create and host wikis, and the people who are significant within the wiki-world. We categorically do not create user pages for every prospective spammer who registers a user account here, who then makes zero edits (because their intended spam is blocked by our abuse filters). This has to stop. By all means, {{welcome}} them on their talk page once they have made a few constructive edits - once they have engaged in our community here on WikiIndex.

It has been stated many times previously -- WikiIndex is not Wikipedia, and to clarify further, WikiIndex is not Wikia either. We do not have the 1,500 sysops that they have on the English Wikipedia! And I guess Wikia has sysops and other staff which run into four figures. WikiIndex is lucky if it can count on TWO sysops on 'duty' -- much of the time, there no sysops online at WikiIndex. We quite simply do not have the workforce here to fix such major, unwanted changes. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 16:59, 24 May 2017 (PDT)

AbuseFilters with redundant actions

There are several abuse filters configured on this project that are currently enabled with redundant actions (there could be more deleted/disabled ones, I didn't check). Out of the ones that are enabled, filter 3 has both "disallow" and "block autopromote" enabled. The disallow is redundant, as block autopromote also disallows the edit. Filters 6 and 8 are set to "disallow" and "tag". The tag in this case is redundant, since the disallow would be processed first a tag would never be added. Filters 19, 21, 26, and 28 have both "disallow" and "block" enabled. Disallow is redundant since block also disallows. This isn't anything urgent, but removing redundant actions could clean up the abuse filter list display a little bit (i.e. make the table of filters take less room on the page). -- Amanda (talk) 13:21, 24 May 2017 (PDT)

Why is there a need to trim down the Abuse Filter log? Anyway, I am working through your concerns, as follows:

Filter3 has tested ok, and not returned any errors (nor any hits!). Filter3 is an extremely robust anti-spam filter, which should be hidden. How are you able to view it?

Filter6 tests ok. The tag warning adds a custom message to the bottom of the existing MW Abuse filter warning message. Users can over-ride this filter, hence when they trigger the warning message. This filter could be triggered accidentally by anyone - even your cat walking across your keyboard!

Filter8 similar to 6.

Looking at these three, they have been developed, tested, and refined by the geeks at MediaWiki.org. I'm not too comfortable about undoing their work. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 17:54, 24 May 2017 (PDT)

I wasn't able to view them. The consequences thar occur when the filter is hit are publicly visible at Special:AbuseFilter, regardless of privacy. -- Amanda (talk) 04:56, 25 May 2017 (PDT)

Gibberish accounts

Would it be possible to suppress the usernames and/or delete the twenty or so usernames that are just long strings of 0's, 1's, or other numbers? I've noticed the same types of accounts in the ShoutWiki global users list and they all appear to be one or two spambots just making a mess. Suppression of the usernames via Oversight is probably easier, but deleting the accounts altogether would work too. (the latter requires a db change without UserMerge.) -- Amanda (talk) 14:07, 24 May 2017 (PDT)

time zone - change to UTC

Being as WikiIndex is a multilingual, and therefore multinational wiki, is there any reason why PST is enforced upon all of us? I am aware of manually overriding timezone in user preferences, but it doesn't want to work for me, and I don't see any evidence that manual override works for others. Can I therefore suggest we change our default time to UTC? Comments of support or not please. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 07:09, 6 December 2017 (PST)

For me the setting to my time zone has worked without problem. --Manorainjan 07:12, 6 December 2017 (PST)

• Agree I am all for standardizing and internationalizing this site. Koavf (talk) 11:32, 6 December 2017 (PST)

Manor - what timezone suffix is displaying for you on this page? For me - even though I have set my user prefs to London, talk pages are still displayed as PST. Don't forget that many 'functions' on this wiki are broken!  :-( Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 15:30, 7 December 2017 (PST)

Obviously, the personal setting regarding time zone is to set time in the output of lists like RC so that it fits Your local time. It would be quite a hotchpotch if on talk pages every one would sign with their individual time zone. --Manorainjan 15:55, 7 December 2017 (PST)

Regarding the time zone to be used for general purpose I think it is best to use the time of the actual server of the wiki. Every wiki has its actual location, the server. To deviate from server time should be justified by a specific reason like when the actual server is in USA but the group using the (German language) wiki would be in Germany. But this wiki is founded by Americans and hosted in USA. I think it's perfectly OK to let this be reflected by using some American time zone for general purposes. BTW isn't the spelling time zone in two words? Manorainjan 15:55, 7 December 2017 (PST)

Wikipedia use UTC, and their servers are in the US, same for Wikia. UTC is about reaching out, being global, not being centric to one particular country.

'time zone' is one word in American English, but two separate words in British and Commonwealth English. There are many quirks between American and British English - gotta love what our US friends call a 'bumbag'!! [1]  :-O Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 16:57, 7 December 2017 (PST)

Danish and German Wikipedia use CEST & CET, Arabic uses EET. UTC is accidentally the same time as England. So the English Wikipedia is England centric ;-) I don't know where the servers for German Wikipedia stand, but I guess in Germany. Tell me if you got specific information about that which are different. --Manorainjan 18:05, 7 December 2017 (PST)

Do you really think that the different language editions of Wikipedia are hosted all over the world? As tho there are servers in Lichtenstein, Austria, etc. for German speakers and then some in Peru and Equatorial Guinea for Hispanics...? No, they are all in the United States. For a long time, Florida but I believe Virginia now. Koavf (talk) 19:48, 7 December 2017 (PST)

IT is not a belief system. "Wir betreiben eigene Server". Since the content of the German language version of Wikipedia is mostly read and written from users located in Germany and surrounding German speaking regions, it is reasonable, not to send the data back and forth to Florida. --Manorainjan 00:41, 8 December 2017 (PST)

See the page about the Esams cluster in Amsterdam. There is another cluster in Singapore. Maybe Your point of view is a bit American centrically? --Manorainjan 00:54, 8 December 2017 (PST)

Of course there are some back-up servers across the world--the goal is to spread the encyclopedia. But they don't host all of the content for different language editions in the places around the world where they speak it. Do you think that the servers for the Portuguese edition are in Brazil and Mozambique and Portugal and Macau? It's one of the most absurd things I've ever read. Koavf (talk) 10:28, 8 December 2017 (PST)

<reset indent>

Manor - get your facts correct, UTC is not the timezone for England - GMT and BST are the correct zones for the UK (which consists of four constituent countries) and the Republic of Ireland. Requesting UTC has nothing to do with trying to somehow 'claim' centricity in favour of the UK. UTC is merely a 'Universal' timezone which is used around the world - for a vast array of industries - aviation, shipping, military, meteorology, communications, satellite technology (the US-owned and operated Global Positioning System GPS uses UTC), and international IT infrastructure all work from UTC.

As for server location - that is a complete red herring. As you have discovered, Wikimedia Foundation have central servers located in the US, but they also have relay and redundancy servers in Europe and Asia - and they will ALL use UTC. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 09:47, 8 December 2017 (PST)

Speaking of red herrings, UTC, GMT and WET are all the same time: UTC +0 ;-) --Manorainjan 10:32, 8 December 2017 (PST)

Once again, Manor, you are wrong. UTC is an international timezone, GMT is not - it's a local timezone. UTC is a fixed constant year-round timezone, GMT is a transient half-yearly timezone. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 05:40, 10 December 2017 (PST)

Cosmetic: I do not really care if You change the time zone of this wiki. Just do not delude Yourself about its importance. Changing the time zone here will go unnoticed by 99.999 999 % of wikisphere. Topics of real importance are mentioned here: WikiIndex:Site statistics information Manorainjan 10:50, 8 December 2017 (PST)

Who mentioned anything about "my importance"? You are a deluded fantasist! Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 05:40, 10 December 2017 (PST)

You can insult me, because You are the one with the admin buttons. If I had called You names like that You would have blocked me. --Manorainjan 05:54, 10 December 2017 (PST)

Logos of wikimedia wikis missing

I saw that the logos of the entries of wikipedia, wiktionary and so on are missing. What happens? --Manorainjan 16:00, 7 December 2017 (PST)

Can you please show some examples? Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 05:41, 10 December 2017 (PST)

Permanent block of Manorainjan

What are you waiting for? He seems not to be learning his lessons and is continuing his rude behaviour. He should really be blocked - he caused problems to many users. --67.207.90.236 10:27, 11 December 2017 (PST)

The problem is that his edits are helpful as well as off-putting. This would be simpler if he were only a troll or engaged in something which is clear vandalism but as it stands, he is just intermittently obnoxious and when that spills over into an actual confrontation, it requires intervention. Koavf (talk) 10:48, 11 December 2017 (PST)

Well, then you can warn him with a temporary block... --104.236.168.56 10:57, 11 December 2017 (PST)

He has been blocked before. Do you have in mind some particular incident that demands blocking him now? Koavf (talk) 11:11, 11 December 2017 (PST)

Here - the edit summary is an attack to Hoof Hearted ("go ahead, make Your seconds ;-)") --107.191.56.63 12:24, 11 December 2017 (PST)

This is a perfect example of him being an ass--even somewhat hostile--but I really don't think it warrants a permanent block. At some point, enough of that with nothing constructive would definitely warrant that person being blocked but I just don't think this is enough. Koavf (talk) 15:08, 11 December 2017 (PST)

Here - editing other users' talk pages and intruding into other people's business. He changed a title to a subtitle without giving a proper reason. --192.241.201.193 11:20, 14 December 2017 (PST)

Dang, the way Manor just barged in and changed the formatting like that, shoving his two bytes where they weren't invited and certainly don't belong, shows we're dealing with a real Genghis Khan who doesn't mind invading everywhere and everything he possibly can. Somebody do something, the guy's out of control! If you let him keep conquering one user talk page after another like this, eventually it'll become too late to oppose him as he will have become so powerful as to be ... UNSTOPPABLE. Leucosticte (talk) 14:32, 14 December 2017 (PST)

If adding two = to a conversation makes me 'Genghis Khan', than maybe I should add six = next time, in order to become 'Master of the Universe' ;-) Manorainjan 14:41, 14 December 2017 (PST)

And what about this? It is abuse and defamatory content. Accusing users of being sockpuppets. --138.197.192.137 14:39, 14 December 2017 (PST)

Manor, can't you see how intimidated people are by your behavior, to the point that they're afraid to even register an account on this wiki before participating in ban discussions concerning you? This #MeToo movement is really gaining steam; now we have not one, not two, not three, nor four, but FIVE separate IP address accusers coming forward to report your wiki-assaults. That many anons can't be lying; you must have done SOMETHING. Confess now, and clear your conscience while there's still time. Take responsibility and show contrition, and maybe there will be lenience. Leucosticte (talk) 15:02, 14 December 2017 (PST)

You may be right in the assumption that those IP-edits are done by somebody who has or had an account here. But all conclusions You are drawing from there I disagree with. To discuss sockpuppetry and cowardice is not my business. I leave all this slandering to others. --Manorainjan 15:09, 14 December 2017 (PST)

That's just a minor annoyance at most and somewhat helpful at best. Koavf (talk) 16:30, 14 December 2017 (PST)

I don't think Manorainjan deserves a ban. And You were all so focused in this conversation that You didn't realise that a vandal returned here with a sockpuppet. Manorainjan, with Your help, he confessed everything ;-) --104.236.168.56 06:56, 15 December 2017 (PST)

Checkuser request

I request a check user on Usa11, a suspect sockpuppet of HAL-9000. --45.76.123.109 11:58, 15 December 2017 (PST)

That user hasn't edited. Koavf (talk) 17:53, 15 December 2017 (PST)

As of 27 December 2017, Usa11 still has not made any edits. Their IP address originates from Russia, and that is all I am prepare to divulge. 45.76.123.109 – do you have any specific information which demonstrates sock activity? Best, Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 23:28, 26 December 2017 (PST)

Fix WikiIndex's copyright footer

Go, and scroll down, right now. You'll see this:

WikiIndex's content is available under the [[:Category:Wiki Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike|Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0]]. Logos are displayed here as '[[WikiIndex:Fair use|fair use]]', with copyrights retained by their owners.. Logos are displayed here as 'fair use', with copyrights retained by their owners.

While it does work on the copyright warning (the warning that shows up when you're editing below either "☐ Watch this page" or "☑️ Watch this page"):

Please note that all contributions to this WikiIndex wiki are considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. Logos are displayed here as 'fair use', with copyrights retained by their owners. (see WikiIndex:Copyrights for details). Logos are displayed here as 'fair use', with copyrights retained by their owners. Anything you write here may be changed by others, and redistributed. You are promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!

This is not a free wiki hosting site – this is a wiki 'index' of all wiki, wiki people, wiki software, wiki farms, and wiki ideas.
Contributions outside of that scope may be treated as test edits and likely to be removed.

Wiki markup doesn't work on the footer though, thus, it results in broken markup and looks ugly. To fix this, I propose the changes to two pages and two variables I can't edit:

(At the top is what I assume to be the original, and at the right is what I think would look better)

On LocalSettings.php:

$wgRightsText = "[[:Category:Wiki Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike|Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0]]. Logos are displayed here as '[[WikiIndex:Fair use|fair use]]', with copyrights retained by their owners.";
$wgRightsText = "Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License";

(To the left is the original, to the right is what the code I'd like to be put on the pages)

MediaWiki:Copyright
{{SITENAME}}'s content is available under $1.	{{SITENAME}}'s content is available under the $1. Logos are displayed here as '[[WikiIndex:Fair use|fair use]]', with copyrights retained by their owners.
MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning
All contributions to {{SITENAME}} are considered to be released under the $2 (see $1 for details). Anything you write here may be changed by others, and redistributed. You are promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. '''Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!'''{{clear}}<big>'''This is [[WikiIndex:About#What WikiIndex is not|not]] a free [[wiki]] hosting site – this is an [[:Category:All|index]] of [[WhatIsWiki|wiki]], [[:Category:Wiki people|wiki people]], [[:Category:Wiki engine|wiki software]], [[:Category:Wiki farm|wiki farms]] and [[:Category:Wiki idea|wiki ideas]].<br> Contributions outside of that scope will be treated as test edits and be [[WikiIndex:Deleting pages|removed]].'''</big>	All contributions to {{SITENAME}} are considered to be released under the $2 (see $1 for details). Logos are displayed here as '[[WikiIndex:Fair use|fair use]]', with copyrights retained by their owners. Anything you write here may be changed by others, and redistributed. You are promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. '''Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!'''{{clear}}<big>'''This is [[WikiIndex:About#What WikiIndex is not|not]] a free [[wiki]] hosting site – this is an [[:Category:All|index]] of [[WhatIsWiki|wiki]], [[:Category:Wiki people|wiki people]], [[:Category:Wiki engine|wiki software]], [[:Category:Wiki farm|wiki farms]] and [[:Category:Wiki idea|wiki ideas]].<br> Contributions outside of that scope will be treated as test edits and be [[WikiIndex:Deleting pages|removed]].'''</big>

For those who don't understand, I just moved the "Logos are fair use, with copyrights for them" thing from the $wgRightsText variable, which MediaWiki didn't intend to have, to the right place, which is MediaWiki:Copyright.

The results

The copyright notice on the footer would look better:
(Old one at the top, new one at the bottom)

WikiIndex's content is available under [[:Category:Wiki Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike|Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0]]. Logos are displayed here as '[[WikiIndex:Fair use|fair use]]', with copyrights retained by their owners..

WikiIndex's content is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License. Logos are displayed here as 'fair use', with copyrights retained by their owners.

The copyright warning at the editing screen would look almost exactly the same:

All contributions to WikiIndex are considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0. Logos are displayed here as 'fair use', with copyrights retained by their owners. (see WikiIndex:Copyrights for details). Anything you write here may be changed by others, and redistributed. You are promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!

This is not a free wiki hosting site – this is an index of wiki, wiki people, wiki software, wiki farms and wiki ideas.
Contributions outside of that scope will be treated as test edits and be removed.

All contributions to WikiIndex are considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License (see WikiIndex:Copyrights for details). Logos are displayed here as 'fair use', with copyrights retained by their owners. Anything you write here may be changed by others, and redistributed. You are promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission!

This is not a free wiki hosting site – this is an index of wiki, wiki people, wiki software, wiki farms and wiki ideas.
Contributions outside of that scope will be treated as test edits and be removed.

Conclusion

Merry Christmas. And what do you think about it? Merry Christmas from Luis (talk • contribs • guestbook) 03:45, 23 December 2017 (PST)

I think it's good. The problem is: who does have backend access on this wiki? --Usa11 (talk) 12:39, 23 December 2017 (PST)

Let me know if there's something I can help with Raymond King | talk

Actioned

Usa11 — I now have limited backend access, restricted to what is available through the MediaWiki interface. Server-side access needs to be addressed to Raymond King.

Luis Anton Imperial — many thanks for your fantastic help. I have now actioned all three of your suggestions; I would appreciate your feedback. From my perspective, I have noticed the following:

1. The change to LocalSettings.php has been successful in fixing the 'double-double' square brackets problem.
2. The change to MediaWiki:Copyright appears to have been successful
3. The change to MediaWiki:Copyrightwarning is less than successful. The standard size text (including bold) appears as per your suggested result, however, the two lines of large bold text refuse to display. I have subsequently removed {{clear}}, in the hope that was the cause of the problem, and replaced with a couple of html breaks - but still no joy. Do you have suggestions?

I shall be archiving the 2017 elements of this talk page, so if there are any new comments or suggestions to this particular section, please start a new section on our current Commnunity portal talk page, and link back to this section in the archived page. If anyone is unsure how to link back to archives, please let me know and I shall gladly create any required links for you. Regards to all. Sean, aka Hoof Hearted • _{Admin / 'Crat} • talk2HH 09:14, 3 January 2018 (PST)

Spam

Why is noone deleting all the spam? --95.195.148.235 15:22, 29 December 2017 (PST)

Which SPAM? Care to set a wiki link? --Manorainjan 15:28, 29 December 2017 (PST)

Server move 2017

Until now now data under WikiIndex:Server move 2017. The popularPages-Extension is not installed. --Manorainjan 16:42, 31 December 2017 (PST)