User talk:MarkDilley

Notification on users talk page only

People's "talk" pages alert them to messages. Their user pages don't. Best wishes! robinp 00:46, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Thank you for the tip Robin! - Need to write something up about that function. TalkPagesForWikiPeople - best, mark

Testing Notification for Message on Talk Page

Does it work? did you get the notification? TedErnst 16:35, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

When I first signed up for wikipedia, I was TedErnst, but then somehow couldn't get signed in again using that name so became Tedernst and started editing without realizing what was up. Now I'm attached to it. Then, since this is also mediawiki, I stuck with the strange name. I'll fix it out. Thanks!

And you can welcome Tristan by editing the talk page (not the user page directly), which is considered fine etiquete at mediawikis, as far as I know. TedErnst 16:49, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Mark, I'm okay with whatever is going to happen here and don't need it to look any way, so please know that I love you very much and all my suggestions are just that, suggestions. I'm here to help. :-)

That said, Mediawiki has some really cool features that I think will be useful to use. Notice how MarkDilley and User: MarkDilley are two different pages? One is an article and the other is a user. I believe it'll be cleaner to not have any people in the article namespace, the space that you want to be full of wikis. When you make a comment that you'd like signed, you don't have to link to anything, you can just type 4 tildes, and it'll expand out with the datestamp and a link to your user page. TedErnst 16:34, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

• Ted I do not know how to redirect my page MarkDilley to user:MarkDilley, please do that if you can. I want the simplicity of wiking my name.

Oh, and I just remembered, media wiki also has a talk page connected with every other page, in every namespace. So if I want to leave a comment for you, I don't leave it on your user page, but on your talk page: User talk: MarkDilley and you'll get a notification (I'm pretty sure) that you have a new message. TedErnst 16:34, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

An admin can do it. First, an admin has to delete the page "User:MarkDilley" because it was nothing but a redirect. Then any registered user can move "MarkDilley" page to "User:MarkDilley". Tristram Shandy 17:48, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

So Tristam, I just MarkDilley and it goes to my user name or my article name?

On wikipedia it's really important to preserve edit histories because of the GPL licence. We don't have that issue here with the CC license, correct? So a cut and paste move isn't a problem here the way it is there? TedErnst

The purpose of moving pages with the move function is to keep the edit history for attributing the page authors. The licence of WikiIndex also requires to attribute the author properly, so the move function is still important. Tristram Shandy

Link to yourself automatically using tildas

Just sign your contributions with 4 tildes "~~~~" and you won't need to remember how to link to yourself. TedErnst 17:13, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Yea, I just don't like the time date stamp, so I don't do that. It is not in my wiki nature :-)

If you don't like the time stamp, you can use three tildes instead. Tristram Shandy

Okay, well, we're going to have to decide the namespace issue. I just noticed that John Stanton has his page in the article space as well. Where can we have that conversation? TedErnst 17:22, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

It is cleaner to have the name of Wiki People have article pages. Thanks for the tild example Tristram! MarkDilley

Mark, you're sounding very dogmatic. Things should be this way because they should be this way. I'm not so sure things are so cut and dried automatically better one way over the other. And if you're not interested in using the features of media wiki, perhaps another engine would be a better choice? TedErnst 00:59, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

Actualy Ted, it sounds to me as you are the one being dogmatic. We must do this because that is what the wiki software is capable of. I think that individual choice works for me here. I am not forcing anyone else to do it any other way. :-) Hugs back - MarkDilley

I like the namespaces because of what they give you. They are unique in my experience to media wiki. I like them not because they exist here, but because they are useful. You seem to not like them only because you haven't used them. Or maybe there's some other reason? I don't know because your answers feel so absolutist to me. I'm not trying to run your project. I'm here to help. Believe me, I'll do my best to help this project succeed, however you set it up. I'm just hoping to do it in the way that makes the most sense for those doing most of the work. That might not be me and thus I shouldn't have all that much say. It's just that you might not have experienced some of the features you're poo pooing. No worries. I'll get down to work presently. TedErnst 01:12, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

I don't think I am poo pooing any ideas. MarkDilley

Category Sorting

[[Category:Wiki People|Tristram Shandy]]

The purpose of this code is not to show up and differently on Tristram's page, it's to sort the name properly on the category page. Otherwise, we'd all end up in the U section, if we're using namespaces. If we're not using namespaces, then we could use that code to sort by last name, if we wanted to.

[[Category:Wiki People|Dilley, Mark]]

learning how to collaborate with people Wiki is hard

Categories at the top?

Why? TedErnst

It is a standard that ICANN wiki used, that we all liked, and the added bonus is that the categories sort before the template categories, giving the first ones more relevance with a folksonomy.

Okay, Hopefully I won't hate it too much. TedErnst

You wrote: "also, the standard we are trying to set is categories at the top of the page." They recommend the opposite in Wikipedia because the newbies may get confused when they see odd-looking category descriptions instead of normal text, when they start to edit a page. There used to be problems with search engines, they showed categories before the normal text in their page summaries. However, I don't know if the search engine problem is occuring any more. Tristram Shandy

Personally, I think that is not a problem with this wiki for three reasons:

• The wiki is for other wikis, so one assumes that other contributors are not newbies.
• If we do get a newbie checking out the inside, the data is structured and I think they would be able to figure it out quickly.
• I think categorys in wiki are pretty valuable and exciting things to start to be able to understand, so it is kinda cool to have them smack dab in the front. My 2 cents. :-) MarkDilley

Why do you want the extra added categories to be listed before the ones in teh box? Shouldn't the ones in the box be the most important? TedErnst 00:58, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

The categories at the bottom are already redundant once, some may say twice because of the sidebar links. So adding the Folksonomy Categories in the front helps the richness of the site. I like that they are redundant at the bottom, but I think they are less valuable because they are the highlighted ones in the templete. Also, while this is a MediaWiki, it is not Wikipedia. Best, MarkDilley :-)

I don't understand anything of what you're saying here. Redundant once how? Redundant twice how? What's a Folksonomy Category? How do the sidebar links come into play? And does the wikipedia comment come from my other comment? Of course it's not wikipedia. That's why I wonder why we're using wikimedia engine if it's clear that its features are not what you're looking for in building this project. TedErnst 01:09, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

Look at the categories in the template box, now look at the categories at the bottom of the page, they are the same. A folksonomy is when people come along and say, hey this is a category art wiki, so they add it into the non structured data area of the wiki page. Test for yourself, add the non structured category data at the top, save, see what is looks like, now move it to the bottom and see how it changes to the back. I think those categorys are good to be redundant from the template in the page, but not really necessary to be in the front.

table of contents

Any time there are 3 or more (I think) headings on a page, the TOC pops up just before the first of them. Often there is introductory text before the first heading, so that ends up before the TOC. You can force NOTOC somehow, and you can also force TOCright, where the text will then wrap around. We'll have to figure those out. TedErnst 01:01, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

testing talk message

very cool :-)

category thing

John thinks it gets lost on the bottom, so he likes to see it there also. So I only say that if you're going to put extra categories in the "body" area, then put both commands in the same place so people can see what's been done and copy that if they like it that way.

Ok, I think that is fine, I think as a standard, people will get used to it being next to the category tag at the bottom. MarkDilley

Work in Progress

what exactly is the 'check name' field for? --Ray 23:11, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

Is the name of the wiki page the same as the name of the wiki, I have found several that aren't

altorgwiki

mostly bad porn, but worse it's riddled with spam links and the like. i didn't think it added any value and thougth it might offend some. feel free to put it back in if you think otherwise.

yea i found it, altorgphpwiki. spam porn links... should we remove others that are porn spam links?

redirects for alternate names

Mark,

When someone comes here, they don't know if their intended wiki is already here. So they type the name in the box and if they don't have it exactly the same, it'll say "not found, would you like to start it?" For this reason, I believe we should not delete any redirects from alternative names, because these increase the liklihood that a person will find the wiki they're looking for and therefore not create a new page for it when one already exists. So save yourself some work and stop deleting redirects! :-) Just an opinion, not a decree.

hugs, TedErnst

I think that people will type in their wiki name exactly as it is, if it is not there, then they should add it. I am not so sure that alternate names are important. By the way, I added most of these wiki to SwitchWiki and I think I added the wiki to many of them. So I am comfortable deleting the wrong name. :-) MarkDilley

Will they type Meatball or MeatBall or MeatBallWiki or meetballwiki? I just don't see the benefit of deleting a harmless redirect. It's more work for you to delete, and possibly more work later when someone creates an article that alrready exists. This may be just a huge big in mediawiki that won't let you find a page without having the name exactly right, but it causes amazing problems at wikipedia. I've done it myself, created articles that already existed. The redirects left over once all this is fixed each time means the next person to make the same mistake won't make the same mistake! TedErnst

The problem I see is that this solution, not eliminating redirects, causes redundancy in the alphabetical listing. MarkDilley

Now you've lost me. The redirects shouldn't have any category information and thus shouldn't show up in any lists. That sounds like a bug to me if you are seeing duplicates. Have you asked John about it? Crap. TedErnst

Nope I haven't ask John yet, you are just now bringing up the issue! ;-) I don't think it is a bug because it is base on article pagename, not categories... but alphabetical stuff... unless it is something that needs to populate the page database and in a few hours won't be a problem. I will check a few later to see. MarkDilley

Okay, I'll leave it alone. Perhaps I'm wrong with my assertion "People will re-create pages that will then need to be deleted, over and over again." In fact, I must be wrong. Traffic here will not be that high, and will be primarily, if not exclusively wiki people. I'm overthinking and planning for the newbie. So just ignore me. I'm going to bed!  :-) TedErnst

Also Ted, If people create them in the future, then maybe we should do a redirect. But for the launch of this wiki, I want as few redirects as possible. I have however kept a couple that I think are close, similarly to the Meatball scenario you layed out. It is wiki! :-) Best, MarkDilley

WikiSym

I think it would be good to get together at rcc to talk about this project and figure out what we want to say about it at rcc and at WikiSym

• re: WikiSym:Call for participation

Wikified Link

Until we can get a LocalName system here, I think we should standardize external links to other wikis. exp: MeatballWiki:MarkDilley

• isn't there a system of connecting that we could do fairly easily within wiki... I will check MeatballWiki MarkDilley

edit link in box

I figured out a different way to do it. User talk:TedErnst/articlewithtemplatetest uses User:TedErnst/templatetest as it's template. I'm pretty happy with it now. Does it suck? You threw me for a loop there by commenting in the template. I couldn't figure out how you commented on the page without it showing up in the history, but it was just included from the template. Pretty sneaky! TedErnst 15:39, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

Yes, my intention was to sneakily weird you out! :-) MarkDilley let me go figure out what you are up to. Are you doing this now? Maybe we can hang and skype while we work? MarkDilley

a question about the faq

WikiIndex:FrequentlyAskedQuestions - what it the purpose of the questions being links? TedErnst 15:55, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

I see it as a way to build a useful faq. I am imagining someone typing a question in the search box, and hopefully getting a direct hit to their question. MarkDilley

duplicated

Ha, this is funny! Category:FAQ - there's a duplicate there! - my bad - not sure how to fix it - it's your question mark bug

SwitchWiki

I think I want switchwiki.com to point here. Then I want SwitchWiki in red and black, instead of IndexWiki. I think we should capitalize on the name recognition that SwitchWiki has.

Special:Emailuser

Hi Mark. Special:Emailuser is missing from this wiki. You might find it useful to enable it since this is the sort of wiki a lot of people might edit and then not check back for messages for a long time, so emailing them could be the only way of contacting them. Angela 05:43, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

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Mark, I think this functionality is only available in MediaWiki version 1.5.x this wiki is still at version 1.4.5. I have not yet upgraded to version 1.5.x because there are issues with servers that run multi wikis (we have about 40 wikis that run on the same server) the issues may just be my own lack of knowledge but I have not yet been able to install a version 1.5.x MediaWiki and have it play well with the other wikis :-). When I can set aside enough time to really explore and solve the issues I'll start the conversion process for all 40 wikis.

InterMapTxt

This is what is on MeatballWiki and other wikis so they can have LocalNames for easy linking between wiki.

Meta:Editing

• MediaWiki editing info: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing

about tags

I totally get what you're saying about the heading that ends the document (folks/tags/categories). This is different from what John implimented in the template to copy for a new wiki. I improved (I thought) his idea by making the template. He had it set up to show up on the page, and thus be redundant, like you've said. I recall asking about this and got an answer I thought made sense, so I improved his idea by cutting down on syntax. Now I totally get what you're saying AND I think we definitely need to document your idea and make sure John and Ray are on board because your idea hasn't been done before, as far as I know. If this conversation has already happened, please point me that way? Thanks! TedErnst 21:26, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

All I'm saying this this is a decision that's not been made yet. I found your FAQ page about tags and I commented on it's talk page. Need to get agreement among you, John and Ray about how this is going to work. Then we document the decision made and clean up after ourselves. I can help with that part. TedErnst 21:34, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

Sure, I can be part of the agreement. I left myself out because your idea excites me and rubs me the wrong way, probably just because it's unfamiliar to me. And since you and John both made steps on this topic in the last few days, I thought maybe it was better for me to let the two of you work out the solution.

One potential problem to consider, at least on talk pages, is the mediawiki feature of the plus sign at the top of the page. This allows someone to add a comment in a new section at the bottom of the page automatically without having to edit the whole page. This new section will be below your footer, unless you get John to hard-code the footer. TedErnst 12:00, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

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Bravo! I think the tag template is a brilliant way to allow people to add a new category to an article easily and have it display on both the article and the category area on the bottom. Mark pointed out to me last night that it might be even better for the template not to automatically bullet the text because that way we could also embed the tag into a paragraph. That makes sense to me because then we could use it that way, or bullet it if we wanted to with an asterisk as usual. I think this also solves the problem of having to make a large heading (folksonomy, tagging, caregories) and have it appear near the bottom of the page. --Ray 12:12, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Ray, when I first made the tag template, it did not have a bullet. John then changed it to include the bullet because he said it was messing up the formatting otherwise. Perhaps we need two templates? tagb and tag, one having the bullet and the other not? TedErnst 12:17, 23 Jan 2006 (EST) Yes, good solution --Ray 15:35, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Also, I'm not quite getting what Mark wants from the folks/tag/cat footer. There's already a footer with the categories right below this, labeled "categories." Could that text just be chagned to include folks and tag and be bold? Would that make everyone happy? Then we could use either categories or the tag template (without the bullet) in the body and everything would show up neat and clean? TedErnst 12:17, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

I think we're close to being on the same page, when Mark put in the "folks/tag/cat" heading we didn't have the benefit of the tag you created. So as far as i'm concerned, if we have the tag and tagb commands, we don't even need any extra headers/footers. --Ray 15:35, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

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ExpericencedInteractionWithInexperience

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nvc communication

Yes, and instead of No, but or Yes, but to help communicate ideas of growing and buidling collectively and collaboratevely

Back channel communication rather than wiki for real time

• I am going to be on irc.freenode.net #wikiindex

• I also am available for IM and possibly voice chat on skype - "MarkDilley" - Best, Mark

• Raymond King
  • MSN - [email protected]
  • Skype - Rathbone
  • and I will get on IRC as much as possible

my new signature

I figured out a way to have my signature not point to my user page and to have it point directly to my talk page. If there's interest, I'll document this. TedErnst | talk 13:54, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

Ted that is awesome, could you document it please! Best, MarkDilley

Test it out to see if it's clear? New page for yourself#Step 5 - Create your signature. I also put in a new step 4 for creating redirects. TedErnst | talk 15:37, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

test, [[User:MarkDilley|MarkDilley | talk]] --- ??? what am I doing wrong? MarkDilley

[[User:MarkDilley|MarkDilley | talk]]

I don't know. Did you check the box? Hmm. TedErnst | talk 11:45, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

I think that is it, MarkDilley | talk

Yup, that's it! Excellent!

Except the talk isn't working, frump! :-)

I'll bet it is. Mediawiki doesn't self-link so since we're on your talk page, no link. Try it on my talk page and I'll be it works. TedErnst | talk 16:11, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

Glad you like it! TedErnst | talk 16:16, 25 Jan 2006 (EST)

TagCloud

This would be a good page to have for people. http://www.tagcloud.com/ pulling off of the rss feed. nice.

ParkingLot:

Folksomonmy/Tags/Categories discussion - redundancy is still an issue, but not for thougth now.

Shortcuts

In the search box, type these in to get to a frequently used page quickly.

• File - upload a file
• Help - help files/page
• Add - how to add a wiki, the template for it

Recursive Nature of Wiki

MarkDilley is trying to figure out how this recursive nature of wiki will be best utilized. So far this CategoryWiki along with PhpWiki are examples of an idea I am trying to groke.

Go here for a clean page of Wikicities, or rather follow the redirect twice to get back to this page to see what I want to happen, and it should say "Wikis" instead of articles. Best, MarkDilley

• So here's another place where namespaces are useful, or could be. I believe you want everything that's currently in the main namespace to be a wiki, correct? So this page, RecursiveNatureOfWiki, really doesn't belong here. I'm not sure what you're getting at with the concept, but I think it goes in the WikiIndex namespace (WikiIndex: RecursiveNatureOfWiki). Mind if I move it? Or you can. Just use the move link above. TedErnst 16:29, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

Actually I do mind that you move it, because it is what I mean.  ;-) The idea is that I want the MediaWiki wiki to be at the top of Category MediaWiki, so that all the other media wikis are below it. does that make sense? John Stanton knows what I am trying to get at, and he is thinking of it from a programmers percpective. John, can you add anything?

Sure, I won't move it. I don't understand why the pagename and namespace are so important to you. No worries. Here's a wikipedia category for Chicago Transit Authority. There's also an article for Chicago Transit Authority, linked right from the top. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Chicago_Transit_Authority Is this at all related to what you're talking about? TedErnst 13:42, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

We might need to talk about it, or me show you an example. What I want is Wikicities to be a page name and a category, because it is both. The wiki Wikicities at the top and a category list at the bottom of all the wikis using that engine. MarkDilley

Interesting idea. A simpler way to accomplish this, not nearly as slick visually but also not requiring any programing would be to have Wikicities be a disambiguation page with two links, one to the Wikicities wiki page and the oter to category wikicities. We could impliment that immediately without bothing John for code. It doesn't give you what you want, but maybe it's in the right direction? TedErnst 15:53, 21 Jan 2006 (EST)

On Namespace of course we want wiki's as the main types of articles, but if there's another article (like this one for example) that's in the main namespace, so long as it doesn't collide with a wiki, it think it's fine because it won't junk up the categories if we don't categorize it to anything. Am I missing something? --Ray 00:01, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

For future reference, here are links to Template:Wiki Engine and Template:Wiki Engine boilerplate. Just didn't want them to get lost, in case we decide to go back to them. TedErnst | talk 02:59, 11 Mar 2006 (EST)

nested boxes

Test

ScreenSize matters though... need to keep that in mind when designing web pages. greetings Thanks everybody for all the efforts on WikiIndex!!! Would like to concentrate getting as many new wikis into the system and to completing the second pass through the list to add Logos and correct data entry errors. We have a very limited time between now and RecentChangesCamp and we want to look as good as possible when we show it to folks. Any help with this process is greatly appreciated! -- immediate active collaboration WorkInProgress. We're going through every wiki to add logos, descriptions and correct category tag errors. Please claim a letter. Wikis To Add WikiIndexFaq - Decisions have been made to try and get us the basics till launch that are not yet writen down. If you have a question, please use it and help documentation this process. StartUp Issues Add a Wiki ongoing collaboration Category:FirstAdditional Category:SecondAdditional Category:YourWikiEngine Category:YourWikiTopic

about us community.info People involved with wiki Front door watchlists WorkInProgress featured content Category:vibrant news "Building communities worth having!", February 3-5, 2006, Portland, Oregon. Join us at RecentChangesCamp ... at the University Place Conference Center weblog: RecentChanges.Info related TourBusSystem, WikiNode, LocalNames references AntiSpamMeasures by wiki engine Browse Community talk - make suggestions and proposals here Magic Words for use in pages WikiIndexFaq - Ask your quesions here. note Please keep this list alphabetized. Try to make sure the columns stay even (unless there is an odd number of listings). Also, the link to the current collaboration should be a template that you can update without directly editing the Community Portal.

Discussion

What do folks think about Front door as an alternate to Community portal.

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Recent Changes

Help:Recent changes and point it to http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Recent_changes, thus utilizing wikis that are already documented. Do one for tags and other browse functions.

Recursive Nature of Wiki example. Having recent changes be more consisted with the site, i.e. template with a wiki on it? Or have it point to the meta wiki media. or both.

Mission statement for the website

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http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?MissionStatement

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Starting point suggestions:

Ground Level, The Wiki Way

1 - To build community amoung people who are using wikis to self organize information that is of interest to them.

2 - By helping to build that community, the WikiIndex will become more accurate and more of a WikiNode for other information types.

3 - NonViolentCommunication skills be thought of a standard for this type of communication.

4 - Think about how the ExperiencedInteractionWithInexperience dynamic plays out in real life and online.

5 - The current few months of this wiki development is in brainstorm mode. MarkDilley, Raymond King started off the brainstorming for the wiki, by deciding on a set template for the pages and a vision to get them filled in with a strong data set. Then to start working on processes and the such after that.

6 - All edits are SuggestedEdits. If a dispute occurs, such as an EditWar, people can rely on their creative energies to come up with solutions, for example Versioning.

welcome back

You were vaca or something? Glad to have you back. Really looking forward to just a few days from now! TedErnst | talk 15:21, 30 Jan 2006 (EST)

community building system for wiki

So I have this idea for a Community Page that would be something like WhatILearnedOnWikiToday which is just stories on a wiki page, like a weblog, reverse dated, pile the next one on top. I think it would be a way to share what we learn about, with and from wiki.

I asked my housemate to type in switchwiki into the address bar. WorldWideWiki:SwitchWiki hit first. He then made from the world wide wiki site to the WikiIndex. He sat back and was amazed at the front page, so many choices, I sat back and went, hmmm, does the front page look to complex? wouldn't it be nice to just have a search button in the center like google. but at this site, you can edit your search page if you want..? Interesting idea I had, but the real issue is we just need to think how we want to be presented to people. Anyway, I asked him to pick a site, he chose one that had 'Hard Wiki on it and he went there. After stumbling around a bit he clicked on the photo, remarked postively after visiting the CreativeCommons site. Then asked how to get to the wiki, I said it was easy. He then found it and went to HardWiki and I thought the FrontPage was nice. News on the right, community edited news. (RecentChanges.Info maybe here on the wiki, similar to what CommunityWiki is doing. He found a news article that linked to google video, and then he started to surf it. Like I enjoy surfing wiki.

re: Namespaces

Yes, MediaWiki has them pre-installed. I'm satisfied with our resolutions Namespace Conventions. TedErnst | talk 15:24, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

movie recommendation

I watched this on my laptop on the plane home from Seattle. http://www.archive.org/details/salt_of_the_earth Totally awesome labor movie from the 50s. Check it out if you haven't already. TedErnst | talk 15:26, 7 Feb 2006 (EST)

list of biggest wiki

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_wikis

and on MeatballWiki

recursive

UseModWiki isn't going to show up in the OpenEdit cat anymore, correct? Doesn't seem right. TedErnst | talk 14:07, 14 Feb 2006 (EST)

I fixed UseMod here and Lizzy here. What a pain in the neck! Are you sure this is worth it? TedErnst | talk 12:32, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

WikiProtocal

fyi http://b2b.wikis.com/wc.dll?b2b~WikiProtocol TedErnst | talk 15:36, 18 Feb 2006 (EST)

edit mode

check back in at Category talk:Wiki Edit Mode? Thanks! TedErnst | talk 23:39, 22 Feb 2006 (EST)

awesome! welcome back - that's a lot of 18 hour days - hope it was productive TedErnst | talk 17:12, 23 Feb 2006 (EST)

collapsing work in progress

yes, that was a good idea --Raymond King | talk 03:34, 23 Feb 2006 (EST)

Versioning

See the idea of Versioning as a way to deal with the phenomenon of competition and ego for our own ideas on the very first page. By creating "unlimited" variants, people may more freely explore and express their ideas to express and thoughts. We could use self organized controls, such as #redirect and ExpiresOn categories to deal with clutter. I really don't think we are going to be overwhelmed with traffic to be able to at least do this for a few months. What would the WikiWay do? MarkDilley

So I have made a couple versions as expamles:

• MarkDilley:VersionTwo to store my front page. I just need to go clean off the wiki people tag.
• MarkDilley:WikiIndex:Community portal
• MarkDilley:WikiIndex - I think I will use a : inbetween like MarkDilley:WikiIndex as a page name for my ideas on the page WikiIndex.
• MarkDilley:MissionStatement

versioning discussion

I was nervous about putting this out here, so I asked JohnAbbe about it and then he missed my irc chat and I could wait to just do it. So he just came back to my question:

• well, it turned out that it was more of an idea than a question. The question is how do we support others ideas and creativity on a wiki?

my answer is less techie - by listening, and reflecting what we're getting of what someone says/writes

Thanks John! and IRC!

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The other nice thing about the ":" in the middle fo the wiki words is that when I type in MarkDilley and hit enter a pages comes up with everything of mine. sweeet!! :-)

Mark,

I'm not getting you. Are you saying that one way to introduce changes that I'm not sure are non-controversial is to make a "temp" page for the purpose, get comments, and then copy/paste that temp page to the real location?

Or am I totally missing it?

TedErnst 13:52, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

Nope! You got it. But I think the beauty of it is that people can cull what they like from the page and just go with it. So I, or anyone, can say Here is a idea I had - what do folks think about it. So then it would take another person to go ahead and just do it or comment that it was a good idea. Or to critique, or as you would say, use the Two feet rule and just ignore it. I think it would work. Do you? Best, MarkDilley

Yes, I do think it will work. It's a bit less efficient than just editing the page directly, though it has the huge advantage of being less likely of stepping on people, so it's easier for people to work together (emotionally easier, technically it's a bit harder because of having to look multiple places, although...)

...A suggestion would be to simply use the talk page of the page in question! TedErnst | talk 15:19, 24 Jan 2006 (EST)

I still like my idea of using the talk page for the page in question. Otherwise, how's anyone going to see your proposed versions? Seems like a lot of extra overhead and I'm not yet seeing that outweighed by the benefits. TedErnst | talk 12:53, 28 Feb 2006 (EST)

How will someone know to look for a version? And why can't it simply be a section on the talk page? You said it was from a month ago, but it appeared here now, which made me think it was new again. :-) TedErnst | talk 13:48, 1 Mar 2006 (EST)

I was cleaning up an old page called "Versioning" and placeing it in my talk space. There are many benifits to the idea of "Versioning" but I don't think it needs to be figured out now, infact I don't have the energy to figure it out now! :-) Best, MarkDilley | talk

Hi! Thanks for the welcome. I got introduced to this by my housemate TedErnst. Dan Korn 23:33, 1 Mar 2006 (EST)

• Found a TedErnst link that I feel is in the ballpark of what I am thinking on this stuff. http://tedernst.com/wp/?p=366

• • Sorry, I'm not getting the connection yet. Say more? (By the way, Kaliya is not happy that I blogged about this so soon in the brainstorming process. Seems there's some internal board stuff she's dealing with. Just call me troublemaker!) TedErnst | talk 13:40, 9 Mar 2006 (EST)

weblog post

http://celeryjuice.net/04/04/2006/wiki/

move page feature

Mark, you know about that feature, yes? I noticed you cut and pasted info from my spam page to the new opt out page and then marked the spam page for deletion. If you had just moved the spam page to the opt out page there would be an automatic redirect created and no deletion would be necessary. What do you think? TedErnst | talk 17:50, 3 Mar 2006 (EST)

• I didn't think to do that, but should have. MarkDilley | talk

No worries. I find it a very cool feature and just wanted to make sure you knew about it. I really like that anyone can use it, not just admin! And it preserves the edit history, in case anyone cares about that :-) TedErnst | talk 02:00, 4 Mar 2006 (EST)

Another advantage of the Move feature is that it moves the matching Talk page (if any) - with certain rare exceptions. robinp 16:37, 16 Mar 2006 (EST)

Next WikiIndex banner?

banner - http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2006_Call_for_Participation

Cool idea at da'pedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Film

Re: Deleted Redirects

We talked about this a month or so ago. I'm not a fan of deleting redirects, unless they're defamatory or harmful to the project (like my spam one). I really, really hate the case-sensitivity of Media Wiki and re-directs are one way to make that less of a problem. I humbly request that you save us both some time by not deleting them, or of course, I'm open to more conversation if you like. TedErnst | talk 12:37, 6 Mar 2006 (EST)

I agree with Ted there. I know they appear in the "all pages" list, but that's not something most people ever need to look at. Redirects definitely avoid the likely duplication of pages by well-meaning people who just haven't searched far enough to find what they are duplicating (and don't know they haven't), or haven't even tried. robinp 16:59, 16 Mar 2006 (EST)

Wikis to Add

Awesome work creating all those pages! This will save a lot of time, not having to create the pages or figure out the name of the wiki. Excellent! TedErnst | talk 12:37, 6 Mar 2006 (EST)

navel gazing

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/main?q=&url=wikiindex.com

Shock Level 4

http://wikiindex.com/Sl4Wiki TedErnst | talk 16:21, 6 Mar 2006 (EST)

logos

I haven't done much with logos or images of any kind on MediaWiki, but I thought there was a way to upload an image with the same name as a previous image, and it would replace it, just like wiki text. That way, you wouldn't have to change the template in our site with the new name. Did I dream this up? TedErnst | talk 16:36, 6 Mar 2006 (EST)

I think your are correct that we don't need to change the template for images uploaded with the same name. If you are reffering to the updated logo at Wikicites. The old logo was just named Wikicities, the new one is named WikicitiesLogo. MarkDilley | talk

Ah, I hadn't thought of the fact that we might not be re-naming logos. Cool. Carry on! :-) TedErnst | talk 17:03, 6 Mar 2006 (EST)

how do you track actvitiy on wikis you care about?

I noticed you commented on a new person at wikisym today. How do you track the wikis you care about? I'm using http://www.communitywiki.org/en/RecentChangesPersonalizedTedErnst. TedErnst | talk 17:06, 8 Mar 2006 (EST)

Hi Ted - mostly Bloglines - http://www.bloglines.com/public/MarkDilley

You seem to have lost your cookie. Anyway, holy shit, you follow a lot of feeds! How much of that do you actually read? TedErnst | talk 23:21, 8 Mar 2006 (EST)

language note

http://meta.anarchopedia.org/index.php/Anarchopedia:Community_Portal

Trade off between reading and writing

http://www.nooranch.com/synaesmedia/wiki/wiki.cgi?TradeOffBetweenReadingAndWriting

RecentChangesPatrol

excellent! sorry for reverting you - I couldn't figure out what you were doing - now I see it and of course it's much better than it was before - great work! TedErnst | talk 13:31, 10 Mar 2006 (EST)

wikis for review

Do we have a way to mark wikis for review? If not, remind me to create something, will you? In the meantime, take a look at GreenCheese, okay? comment going to both Mark and Ray -- TedErnst | talk 17:21, 10 Mar 2006 (EST)

delete procedure

Please see WikiIndex talk:Deleting pages. Thanks! TedErnst | talk 02:30, 11 Mar 2006 (EST)

RealNames

I know you're busy. No hurry. When you get a chance, could you look in on the RealNames discussion page? Thanks! TedErnst | talk 14:14, 16 Mar 2006 (EST)

good idea

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Beer_parlour - maybe go hang out at the BeachByTheOcean

great to have you back

How are you doing? Still a few more days on the job or are you done? What's next on the horizon? TedErnst | talk 16:41, 27 Mar 2006 (EST)

LocalNames

I think that what you are calling LocalNames is what the MediaWiki software refers to as an interwiki or intermap link. I can, for example, user the WikiPedia:User talk:BlankVerse link on every wiki using the MediaWiki software and that will link to my user page on the English-language Wikipedia. I haven't been able to find where the WikiIndex keeps its interwiki map, but it it must have one for that last link to work. The interwiki map for all of the Wikimedia Foundation projects is at [1] and the Usemod/MeatballWiki map is at [2]. Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterWiki and http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?InterMap. User:BlankVerse | talk 18:38, 29 Mar 2006 (EST)

MarkDilley: hi!

[10:37pm] evanpro: Are you here? [10:37pm] evanpro: I have a strange question for you [10:37pm] evanpro: Well, only slightly strange [10:37pm] evanpro: It's about WikiIndex [10:37pm] MarkDilley: Hello! [10:38pm] evanpro: I was just looking at the good ol' interwiki map on usemod.com [10:38pm] evanpro: and I was thinking, man, this is really out of date [10:38pm] evanpro: I wonder if there's a site that has a comprehensive view on existent wikis... [10:38pm] MarkDilley: right [10:39pm] evanpro: ...that could serve as a focal point for developing a "canonical" (note the quotes) interwiki map [10:39pm] evanpro: ? [10:39pm] evanpro: Which is a coy and leading question [10:39pm] evanpro: Since there is one such site... [10:39pm] evanpro: ...and I've mentioned it already in this chat. [10:39pm] MarkDilley: I asked a question at WikiIndex about hwo interwiki map works with MediaWiki [10:39pm] evanpro: B-) [10:41pm] evanpro: It's a very weird system [10:41pm] evanpro: There's a database table that stores the prefix and URL pattern [10:41pm] MarkDilley: I am not sure about "canonical" [10:43pm] evanpro: Yeah [10:43pm] evanpro: Maybe... I dunno [10:43pm] evanpro: "Frequently used" [10:43pm] evanpro: Like the page on Wikitravel might note that "WikiTravel" is the frequently used IW prefix [10:43pm] evanpro: Hmm [10:43pm] MarkDilley: http://www.wikiindex.com/Category:Vibrant [10:45pm] evanpro: B-) [10:45pm] evanpro: I should probably bring this up on the community portal instead of ambushing you on IRC [10:45pm] evanpro: B-) [10:49pm] de_vogon left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) [10:50pm] MarkDilley: I am trying to juggle another convo, sorry :-( [10:50pm] MarkDilley: and I am not sure exactly what you mean, I know what you are saying I think [10:50pm] MarkDilley: I mean, I think I understand the problem [10:51pm] MarkDilley: Please put on the wiki your ideas about how to do this...?

Thanks

Thanks for listing WikiLens. We'd like more users. :)

--Dan

No problem Dan! We would like to facilitate more people to your community!! Please take some time and make your entry better representative of your wiki.  :-) MarkDilley

for the how to tread lightly on newbies page

CommmuityWiki:NoSuddenMovements CommunityWiki:NoSuddenMovements

edit war

Mark, obviously neither of us wants to be in an edit war. I haven't looked through all the changes, but I'm writing here about your re-naming of the tourbusstop. Also just as obviously, there's not a clear "rule" about which change "sticks" while we're working out a difference. I moved it from where it was and you (apparently it was you, it was unsigned) objected. I asked why and got no response. Now there's a response there and you went ahead and moved it back. This is a wiki practice issue for me at this point. In essence you reverted me and we can either have the conversation in this reverted state or I can drop the whole thing. Maybe I'm fooling myself thinking this is about something larger than my own pettiness. Part of the the problem is I've been home with the flu today so probably am more senstitive than usual today. Let's talk in a couple of days, okay? peace, TedErnst | talk 23:52, 3 Apr 2006 (EDT)

voice?

Hey Mark, sorry for my edginess and angriness lately. Would love to catch up by phone when you have some time. I'm leaving work now, available this evening by skype if you are or phone anytime. hugs, ted

yes, definately, I have been sick too!

quantum

From Wikipedia - "A quantum number is any one of a set of numbers used to specify the full quantum state of any system in quantum mechanics. Each quantum number specifies the value of a conserved quantity in the dynamics of the quantum system. Since any quantum system can have one or more quantum numbers, it is a futile job to list all possible quantum numbers."

Hello Mark

Talking to Ted and stopped by to understand this wonderful site a bit more. How wonderful a gift this is. Would love to connect more with you and think about you often. Skype: juliecaldwell

Hugs, julie caldwell

names

So when you see 68.73.201.100, does it mean something to you? What about why you see WikiVanTed? Trying to get my mind around how you see things. Wanna do the same with me? TedErnst | talk 18:12, 11 Apr 2006 (EDT)

My inital thoughts: I see an IP address as an anonymous edit, i.e. someone not logged in. When I see WikiVanTed it can be one of two ways to think of it. If I know you, then it is not anonymous. More often than not, I find that psudonyms are not linked to a "real person" and so they are just really anonymous contributors, similar to an IP address. For me, I have been most involved in wikis where there is a strong UseRealName standard. I don't feel connected to wiki that are not mostly real people. I want to create a one stop sign wiki town here at wiki index. Not to mean that I am not as interested in "producing" an encyclopedia of wiki links. It is just that figuring out how to help people in wiki start communicating with each other is most important for me. I like WikiIndex, in my mind we are setting up the place and asking people to come here and set up their wiki, description, tagging, etc. as a front lawn of sorts in this small one stop wiki town. I look forward when there will be metropolis of wiki. - late, rambling, best, MarkDilley

So it wouldn't bother you at all if I never logged in? You don't hold my edits to a different standard than an anon? You know I'm asking because it's all about me! :-) No, actually, what I'm saying is that when I know it's you, when I see your name, even if I disagree with something you're doing, there's an automatic cutting of slack. If I see an IP, I don't know who it is. I'm more likely to simply revert. Someone not invested enough here to sign their work hasn't earned the right to ruffle feathers, I'd say. I don't have any reason to this this person will be back to answer questions I might ask about their actions. Someone with a login has something invested.

And just to be clear, you and I agree on RealNames as the standard. Where we disagree (I think), is on IP vs psuedo. For me, an IP is not a person, it's a machine or an anoyance or a spammer. A psuedo is a person. I'd rather know their name and interact with them that way, but it is a person to me. It's less of a person than someone using their RealName, for sure, but way more of a person to me than is an IP. TedErnst | talk 11:45, 12 Apr 2006 (EDT)

No it would never bother me if you never logged in. I would learn the IPs that you posted from. So we agree on RealNames - but we have a big gap on the Ip vs Psudonym. I feel the opposite, an psudonym is a jokester, someone who I don't think this that seriously, not a person. I feel it is a trap to think of a psudonym as an identity. An IP to me can represent the beautiful anonymity that the wiki can provide. I read IP and psudonym edits in similar light, content. I am not inclinded to revert anything that anyone has done, unless it is obvious spam, because I want them to explore their ideas, however simple they may be, or however I may not understand them yet.

Much of what I have been thinking about in regards to some of our (diffs) is in the BalancingProcessAndProduct realm, if that makes any sense. I am still groking it. Thanks for your thoughtfullness Ted. Best, MarkDilley

Mark, I just had a brainstorm and came here to tell you about it and found your comment. I'll give you my brainstorm first and then see if I have more to add in terms of your comment. My brainstorm has to do with the login procedure. Why do we have a UserName? Shouldn't it just be a Name? If it was a Name, would that not encourage more people to use RealNames? This will require John's help, of course. What do you think? Worth pursuing? TedErnst | talk 16:36, 12 Apr 2006 (EDT)

That would probably mean forking MediaWiki, which I don't think the GPL lets you do too easily. Though we could just edit the login screen to mention all this. I forget the name of the actual page, but it's somewhere in the MediaWiki: namespace. —User:Sean Fennel@ 20:24, 16 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Sean and Ted, I think that is a great idea Ted! I have asked John to look into changing the title of Article to Wiki because that is basically what it is. I don't understand the problem with making those tweaks Sean, so if you could find a path to your suggestion, that would be fab!

Hmm. What about all of our pages that aren't wikis? TedErnst | talk 13:06, 20 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Well, none of our pages are articles...

They aren't? What about WikiNodes? ... Actually, I'll stop there. I was going to give a whole mess of examples, but there aren't very many others, if any. I concede the point. We don't have articles. But "wiki" doesn't seem right either because we have pages for people and for other stuff, too. TedErnst | talk 17:08, 21 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Maybe none was a bit of an exageration, but I think we can come up with a better header than "Article" - I just threw out "Wiki" because that is the vast bulk of our pages.

I think editing either MediaWiki:Emailforlost or MediaWiki:Loginprompt would do it. Which one would just depend on where on the login screen you wanted it. —User:Sean Fennel@ 03:50, 23 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Thanks Sean, I will check out that path!

UseMod

Mark, I see you're tidying up the UseModWiki / UseMod issue. I haven't looked at many of your edits, but I'm confused about this one. In fact, forget that, the categories themselves are confused. See this: Category:UseMod which hard redirects to UseModWiki which in turn soft redirects to Category:UseModWiki. Confusing! How should it be laid out? TedErnst | talk 12:03, 14 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Teaked it a little, it is still messy. This is the whole category as wiki thing I am trying to figure out. The categories get messy. Will try to look at it later. Best, MarkDilley

Doesn't seem messy to me anymore. I thought the engine was called UseMod so wondered about your move of wikis to UseModWiki and your move in the other direction as well. I didn't realize you'd cleaned it all up so they're now all UseModWiki and I've gone to the source and see that once again, I'm wrong. :-) Yes, it's true. I'm wrong. The wiki is at usemod.com (not usemodwiki.com) and has a logo that says Use Mod and yet the name of the engine is clearly UseModWiki. Strange but true! I think it's quite fine the way it is. TedErnst | talk 16:17, 14 Apr 2006 (EDT)

re: wikipedia

Thanks, Mark. There's a lot more to do, but perhaps now that it's started, Ray's people will get to it. :-) TedErnst | talk 19:11, 24 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Hey, when are you passing through? TedErnst | talk 19:11, 24 Apr 2006 (EDT)

Regarding Wiki Guitar

I want to make it open edit (no need for an account) but I have been having problems with spam.

I also am having trouble upgrading. I upgraded to 1.6.3 today and got a bunch of SQL errors. The truth is, I don't know much about PHP, Mediawiki, or MYSQL. What I do know a lot about is Guitar and some with HTML and web design.

Wikiguitar 20:28, 24 Apr 2006 (EDT)

re: deletion

feel free to undelete it - it was just nonsense, as far as I can tell - plus has nothing to do with searching - no worries if you undelete and try to do something with it - I'll watch you and learn TedErnst | talk 22:42, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

Thanks Mark

Mark:

Thanks for the welcome and updating of my pages.

http://www.wikiindex.com/David_Spencer

http://www.wikiindex.com/ChristianMedia.ca

Wikiindex.com is a very helpful site!

David Spencer Canada

real names

MediaWiki:Prefs-help-realname (this notice appears on my preferences page) TedErnst | talk 15:21, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

MediaWiki:Prefs-help-userdata (or maybe I'm confusing with this one) TedErnst | talk 15:22, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

check out this page: http://www.wikiindex.com/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&type=signup

there are actually 3 fields in mediawiki for names - one is Username and we've renamed that Name. one is Real name and is optional. I'm not sure what it's used for. both of these two are on the page I linked above. The third is nickname and can be seen here: http://www.wikiindex.com/Special:Preferences

argh! TedErnst | talk 14:48, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

test - this is only a test

testing for john about email TedErnst | talk 01:20, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

Email Test for Ted

This is just and email notification test for Ted

Did you chop more than you meant to?

http://www.wikiindex.com/index.php?title=Talk:Wiki_Index&curid=2854&diff=21393&oldid=21387

Robin Patterson 23:55, 15 May 2006 (EDT)

No, maybe not - I think I see them on [Wiki_Index]], so you were probably just belatedly removing them from a temp store while doing something else. Efficiency... Robin Patterson 02:04, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

Wikis for review

Further up the page. Commenting here in case it's useful. One way to see what hasn't been looked at for a while is special:ancientpages. (Hmmmm - interesting to see what's the most ancient at this moment!) Robin Patterson 02:04, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

Yes, that is funny! MarkDilley

Phone calls

I don't do much telephoning, especially if it's something that requires deliberation. And the only really comfortable time would be weekdays from about 5.30pm NZ time (0530 UTC April to October - ie 12.30am EST?, 0630 in "summer") until about an hour later. But I love email: robinp"at"xtra.co.nz gets me almost instantly when I'm at work and within 24hr if my home PC is working. Robin Patterson 02:04, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

http://sacha.free.net.ph/notebook/wiki/WikiIndex.php

re: Wikipedia

Well, I did have a specific plan. :-)

No worries. I'm not wedded to my plan.

Okay, here's my thinking:

Wikipedia is really important. It's important in English because it's the biggest wiki and it gets the most press. It's important in general because it's changing the way people conceive of the expert/peon split. Given that, it's really important for us to have all Wikipedias represented here. The redlinks shown on all wikipedia pages help others see that there's work to be done. It's an invitation of sorts. (As an aside, I believe this technique is useful for all wikis that have seperate language versions of the same thing. Uncyclopedia or something like that is another one I've already started. WikiMedia has other examples.) Anyway, another reason to do it is to emphasize the connections between these different wikipedias. Other wikis aren't bound the way the wikipedias are. They all have the same mission, just different languages, so tying them together tightly on our site is important. I also really like the category:wikipedia, so even if we go with my template, I'd like to put the category in it.

Any change in your thoughts now that you know there's a reason? peace, TedErnst | talk 08:44, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

wiki engine/wiki farm

Yes, you're right. I was mixed up. And yet, doesn't a wiki farm page that shows up as a category still end up becoming a sub-category? And isn't that one thing we were trying to avoid with wiki engines? Seems like a parallel issue to me. I dunno. TedErnst | talk 14:12, 19 May 2006 (EDT)

Yep, check it out: Category:Multilingual

add template and new wikis

Mark, I see you've added the structured data empty boilerplate to the add template. I think this makes it more difficult to go through category first additional as well as the unknown categories. Could we talk about this? Thanks! TedErnst | talk 18:15, 19 May 2006 (EDT)

Hey Ted, remove it if it causing you trouble. I personally think, without seeing your references, that it is a better way to search for new wiki to add, then the category first additional, which as you remember, I tried to get rid of! :-) MarkDilley

I don't mind getting rid of first additional (even if I said otherwise before). Can you say more about the benefits of having the structured date with the add template? TedErnst | talk 21:55, 20 May 2006 (EDT)

Well, before John did the add your wiki button on Community Portal, I don't think it mattered. But with people possibly entering their own wiki, the Add Structured Data box seems to be real helpful for them to figure out what to put where. Just a gut feeling, nothing more, seems to make sense to me. (also, since I was just adding that box anyways, when I added new wikis via this button) MarkDilley

Oh also, seems more natural to look for wiki through the category add wiki, instead of through first/second additional.)

Could we nuke first/second additional right now to simplify this conversation? I'm not going to do it at the moment, but let's just assume it's done.

Okay, cool. Alright. Let's say I'm a new person and I come here and I see that my wiki isn't here. I use John's add a wiki button, the default brings in the structured data, I fill out the form, and we're done, yes? Cool, so far this has nothing to do with the add template, right? Just trying to make sure we're still on the same page. Okay, so with new person adding one wiki, no need to add template, the person does their own structured data. Cool. Now, scenario #2. You, Ray or I find a new wiki or 10 and don't have time or inclination to actually fill in the structured data. We just put the URL in and the add template and we're done. Someone else looking through categories wikis to add sees these wikis need structured data and tehy add it. Cool, right? On the other hand, if the blank (unknowns) structured data is attached to the add template, you or ray or I adds a URL and project unknowns gets stuck with a bunch of new unknowns. So what am I missing? Help me see the benefits? Thanks! TedErnst | talk 02:20, 22 May 2006 (EDT)

Ok, so I add a new wiki through Johns magic wizard. We are ignoring that category first, and second, though they seem similar to me. The template has the add template. I find that useful for two reasons: 1) it has the StructuredData link on it, I think this may help people while they fill in their page. (much the way we thought category first/second would, and why I pushed for a tag in the form) 2) It adds the page to category wikis to add for folks who are working on those tasks. I am unclear why it is a problem from the view point of category unknown and category first/second. Similar to your questions: what am I missing? Help me see the benefits/problems?

Wiki problems

http://undertheoak.net/drupal/taxonomy/term/1