User talk:This is not the solution

I am late to this. Can you explain what is going on? - please use this talk page to do it. ~~ MarkDilley

I will. User:Nx was blocked for removing spammy links to Liberapedia and various inaccuracies and repititions on the RationalWiki article; Proxima also protected the article to keep her version up. Nx emailed the people in charge and tried to get Proxima stripped of her rights, but when there was no response, someone started mass vandalism to try and attract some attention. 92.233.174.117 06:22, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

I gave a link to Liberapedia as that wiki also has material critical of Conservapedia and I know many readers of the RationalWiki article will like that type of information. They called that spam, well I've now added another link Digging the Dirt on the Lunacy that is Conservapedia with better material about problems with Conservapedia. I only found out about that second website this morning and when I was under pressure I didn't think to add it. I hope the links are less spammy and more acceptable. Proxima Centauri 07:07, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

It's a bit too late for that now. Anyway, would you please come to irc to discuss this: http://webchat.freenode.net/ , type wikiindex into channel Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you 07:14, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

I added the link about two hours after I found out about it and about half an hour after the pressure was off me so that is not late. Proxima Centauri 07:23, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

You added the link to Psy's blog today. After the whole mess. In an attempt to make your link to Liberapedia look less like blatant advertising. And keep in mind that we didn't remove every link to Liberapedia, it was there with the other places RWians went to (although noone went to LP, guess why?), we just removed the advertisement

Also, unblock me please, and join us at IRC. Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you 07:26, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

Several users or several sockpuppets of the same user first insisted on getting the RationalWiki article their way if they could, then when I protected that article they started general vandalism. I hope I've cleared it all up. As far as I know they're all blocked but the user or users are experts at ban evasion and range blocks may be needed if it restarts. Proxima Centauri 06:19, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

First, I apologize for the vandalism. I will clean up everything on my own. The issue is that Proxima Centauri is abusing her powers and reverting and protecting any edits to RationalWiki, Liberapedia and other articles. She claims that removing content is a blockable offense. If you look at her edits at RationalWiki, you'll see that's an absurd claim, for example, look at this, which contains two wrong dates, unnecessary quoting of the linked blog post and comment (I've summarised the content instead, and linked to the post), and her speculation about when the site would come back and a sentence before that does state when the site will come back. Only getting the right date there was a struggle. But her main problem seems to be that I and others have removed a paragraph advertising Liberapedia. Then there's Liberapedia, which is her own wiki. I tried to improve her writing, but she reverted me without explanation and locked the article for a month. [1]. Category talk:Active administrators of this wiki also contains a previous incident during which she abused her powers on RationalWiki to pursue a personal grudge. 65.60.37.195 06:26, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

I'll help with the vandalism, by the way. Phantom Hoover2 06:27, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

Assume Good Faith

So - I am starting from this point. I know we are in a mess and I am late - but that is were I would like to start.

User:Proxima Centauri has done a lot of work here and for that I am grateful.

Yet she doesn't assume good faith. She has now blocked Phantom Hoover2 who has helped revert the vandalism.

BtW, don't unblock Phantom Hoover2, unblock Phantom Hoover; I'm fed up with using my neighbour's WiFi. 70.84.211.82 06:36, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

She may have done a lot of work, but that doesn't excuse her behavior. She failed to assume good faith when Phantom Hoover removed the offending paragraph in RationalWiki, then she blocked me without warning with the justification that since I've edited Phantom Hoover's talk page, I should know that removing content is a blockable offense. She did not justify any of her reversions. It seems she didn't even read the edits she reverted, because she then asked a question that she would know the answer to had she read the edit. Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you 06:39, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

I want a cooling off period

Phantom Hoover - will you accept that? ~~ MarkDilley

Yeah, but can you unblock User:Nx (who is the one who really didn't deserve his block), his IP, and block ID #586, which is my home IP. Phantom Hoover2 06:45, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

Nx's IP has block ID #576. He's the one who you should be addressing all of this to; I just got tangled up in it. Phantom Hoover2 06:47, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

I appreciate that. I will try to sort through stuff and check back in later. ~~ MarkDilley

Thanks to everyone for the cooling off - here is my idea on how to move through this.

I appreciate everyone talking a step back. One of the things I love about Wiki is that anyone can edit anything, and when there is a diff - we try to work through it. I am aware, peripherally, that there are disputes between people and perhaps communities. These include RationalWiki, Liberalpedia and Conservapedia. What I am interested in having done on WikiIndex - is to move everything to the talk page for those three wiki - and act as the moderator (other uninvolved administrators could also be in this role). This is only a suggestion to get us through. Please let me know if you think this is an acceptable solution for you. Best, MarkDilley

Acceptable (if I got it completely [concerning my en->de limitation]). Btw I'd remember the participants that wiki is a slower communication medium than e-mail, e-chat, or a real-life talk, but it's more open to public and durable. Many people will - and have to - read it. Everybody has the time to think what - and even whether - to write here. And he/she should use this time.
Let's keep WikiIndex a peaceful "corner" (it's certainly not the top) of the Net. Best --Wolf | talk 04:07, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

This is politics for you. No offense, but I'd rather stick to technical stuff. That said, I think wiki rivalries belong on the wikis directly involved. WikiIndex is not about liberals, or conservatives, or religion, or Linux; it's about wiki technology and concepts. Let's keep it that way. Felix Pleşoianu | talk 04:59, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

Another possibility is that the people from RationalWiki, Liberalpedia and Conservapedia spawn another wiki/blog/forum specifically for their 'discussion'. Having followed recent events I must say I an confused by it all this 'static' spewing out, so I imagine that for someone new who comes to wikiIndex as a wiki listing wikis, the recent events should seem highly irrelevant and far from germane to the wikiIndex project. If wikiIndex plays host to such squabbles, there is a real risk that allowing such discussions will set a precedent that will degrade the quality of this valuable site. Let us remember the message at the foot of the edit box:

Please note that we are an index of wiki, wiki people and wiki ideas, contributions outside of that scope may be treated as test edits and be removed. -- Carl McBride (talk) 06:12, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

This wasn't about interwiki disputes, it was about Proxima Centauri abusing her sysop powers to promote her own site and keep a flawed, inaccurate version of the page from being edited. Phantom Hoover 07:08, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

IMO there is no crime in promoting your site a little. E.g. I've started the Bee Train Fan Wiki article primarily to promote it (since I am its founder). However, you've got to respect others' opinions, as well. If moving controversial stuff to the talk pages is acceptable to all parties involved, I can only support it. Otherwise, I'd strongly support the removal of all controversial content from corresponding articles and their talk pages. Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you and don't touch a running system is my policy. --Koveras 15:44, 26 August 2009 (EDT)

I thik the above post by Koveras is the best suggestion so far. Proxima Centauri 02:03, 27 August 2009 (EDT)

Sorry, but Proxima has demonstrated that she has no qualms about locking and blocking to prevent people from questioning her. I cannot accept her getting off with yet another abuse of power. She has already locked articles on at least three separate occasions to prevent people cleaning up her terrible writing and ovious vendettas, and she seems not to care. She should be stripped of her sysop powers. Phantom Hoover 12:51, 27 August 2009 (EDT)

I think it is a bit foolish to fire a volunteer, when there is apparently nothing stopping us from changing the policy they were apparently following. Lumenos 22:53, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

(Note that "Proxima" didn't write this rule, they seem to have been trying to carry out their admin duty.) I updated this "guideline" so that this "editing etiquette" is clearly not to be a basis for blocking people. Ta da! I hope this is not wandalous of me but when Dad's cat's away, mice will play! Lumenos 00:54, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

I outlined a number of the issues and created this page to both resolve this, and establish some better policies WikiIndex:Policies_and_Guidelines. Lumenos 23:09, 28 August 2009 (EDT)

Hope I'm not overstepping some invisible boundary here. Looks like we could just do this without bugging anyone. I could always move it to my wiki if whoever doesn't want it here. Lumenos 00:54, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

Phantom Hoover, I think that now you are being unfair. Let's look at the whole business this way: what objective lasting damage has Proxima Centauri done to the wiki project? If it's just blocking of the user accounts and several articles, then the other admins should just unblock it if they deem it suitable, and let's move on over this thing. If PC is only accused of making some folks' adrenaline rush to their heads... personally, I'd rule "Not guilty". :) Is there something I haven't noticed?

Also, in my personal experience, nobody is given admin rights without previously demonstrating understanding of and dedication to the cause of the project. Therefore I have always found accusations of "power abuse by the admins", especially coming from newly registered users, suspect. I don't say they can't be right. I just say that an admin can do more than a regular user. Isn't the point of being an admin to steer the project towards its purported goal? --Koveras 06:06, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

(I'm moving Proxima's post here where I think it is more on topic. Please don't shoot! If you disaggree, move it back and I will leave it in the middle of the policy page. Lumenos 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT)) People connected with RationalWiki have been revealing information about me for no reason except to punish me. Proxima Centauri 14:32, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

Yes I noticed that. I'm wondering if it is working or if you are not enjoying the attention or something. Seems a bit odd, that you would bring that up in the middle of the policy page, of all places. It is sorta relevant, in that this is what motivated much of this, but you could speak in general terms, and discuss policy on that page if you don't want to bring more attention to that info. It's really kinda cute, but I hate to think you are suffering over this. Of course I have no way of knowing that. I'm a little paranoid myself. Sometimes I think you are all playing some joke on me. Lumenos 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

I imagine those people feel frustrated and powerless and that is why they are "resorting" to being "mean" to you. I don't know how this whole thing started (I probably don't care). I just wonder if we can't move forward somehow. Lumenos 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

The problem as I see it, is this place is running in..what do they call it?... headless chicken mode! There is no policy but people talk about "trolling" in reference to say, deleting something, and they accuse you of illegitimate blocks when the closest thing to policy there is says "no deleting". So I suggest we work together and write some policy. There is no point in me doing that myself, of course it means nothing if the admins aren't going to follow it and it is not democratically legitimate if it doesn't have community support. Lumenos 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

If you only want to try to resolve the specific conflicts you are having recently, I would suggest doing that here. Lumenos 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT)

Right, let me make entirely clear the circumstances surrounding Proxima's name. On RW and several other sites, she made an account using her real name. She later stopped using this account, and switched to Proxima Centauri; however, she said several times on LP that she was the same person (and any idiot could see that anyway, because they both had the same writing style and strange obsession with the Magdalene Laundries). This was duly noted on RationalWikiWiki. Proxima didn't like this, and rather than denying that the username was her real name, complained on RW. Since we didn't deep burn all references to her name, she had a strop and left. Phantom Hoover 16:47, 29 August 2009 (EDT)