WikiIndex talk:Blocking and banning policy: Difference between revisions

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WikiIndex talk:Blocking and banning policy (edit)

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* Any person may request a block from [[Category talk:Active administrators of this wiki|active administrators]]. That's also the place to discuss your view on sysops overstepping their authority regarding blocking.
* Any person may request a block from [[Category talk:Active administrators of this wiki|active administrators]]. That's also the place to discuss your view on sysops overstepping their authority regarding blocking.


''I'm trying to make this (1) {{W|Wikipedia:Avoid instruction creep|extremely short}} and (2) objective and unambiguous. Feel free to *completely* change this. However, I will be grumpy if you make it more than twice as long. --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] 16:17, 20 August 2009 (EDT)''
''I'm trying to make this (1) {{Wp|Wikipedia:Avoid instruction creep|extremely short}} and (2) objective and unambiguous. Feel free to *completely* change this. However, I will be grumpy if you make it more than twice as long. --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] 16:17, 20 August 2009 (EDT)''


: ''I made it much shorter, hopefully clearer and it is much different than [[English Wikipedia]] - [[SoftSecurity]] is my intent. ~~ [[MarkDilley]]''
: ''I made it much shorter, hopefully clearer and it is much different than [[English Wikipedia]] - [[SoftSecurity]] is my intent. ~~ [[MarkDilley]]''
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: I think that when we phrase our work as '''warning''' people - we have started off on the not [[assume good faith]] foot and so I suggest that instead we try to encourage people to be constructive. ~~ [[MarkDilley]]
: I think that when we phrase our work as '''warning''' people - we have started off on the not [[assume good faith]] foot and so I suggest that instead we try to encourage people to be constructive. ~~ [[MarkDilley]]


After staring at the [[red link]] to this page for a while, I grew suspicious that we aren't being real consistent in when and for how long we put down blocks on spammers. A cursory scan of {{W|Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's blocking policy}} suggests the notion that lengthy blocks on [[IP address]]es is a little extreme. For reference I pulled up the blocking policies on a few other wikis: [http://en.uncyclomedia.org/wiki/Uncyclopedia:Ban_Policy Uncyclopedia], [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/HRWiki:Blocking_Policy HRWiki] &mdash;&nbsp;<span style="font-family: Kristen ITC, Arial;">[[User:Sean Fennel]][[User talk:Sean Fennel|@]]</span> 14:19, 18 January 2007 (PST)
After staring at the [[red link]] to this page for a while, I grew suspicious that we aren't being real consistent in when and for how long we put down blocks on spammers. A cursory scan of {{Wp|Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's blocking policy}} suggests the notion that lengthy blocks on [[IP address]]es is a little extreme. For reference I pulled up the blocking policies on a few other wikis: [https://En.Uncyclomedia.org/wiki/Uncyclopedia:Ban_Policy Uncyclopedia], [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/HRWiki:Blocking_Policy HRWiki] &mdash;&nbsp;<span style="font-family: Kristen ITC, Arial;">[[User:Sean Fennel]][[User talk:Sean Fennel|@]]</span> 14:19, 18 January 2007 (PST)


The {{W|Wikipedia:Blocking policy}} is to block for 24 hours on the first incident, "longer for successive violations".  Looking at [[Special:Ipblocklist]] and the [https://WikiIndex.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block WikiIndex block log], I see some people at WikiIndex think "infinite" blocks are appropriate.  Some people at WikiIndex at [[WikiProject:Junking bots]] suggest 3 days for the first incident.
The {{Wp|Wikipedia:Blocking policy}} is to block for 24 hours on the first incident, "longer for successive violations".  Looking at [[Special:Ipblocklist]] and the [https://WikiIndex.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block WikiIndex block log], I see some people at WikiIndex think "infinite" blocks are appropriate.  Some people at WikiIndex at [[WikiProject:Junking bots]] suggest 3 days for the first incident.


I think we need to balance 2 things:
I think we need to balance 2 things:
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: I hope you agree with me that a person who only edits a single page does less harm to us (his work can be more easily reverted and the page can be protected) than a [[troll]] who trolls across several pages (who in turn does less harm to us than a [[spambot]]), and so should be treated less harshly than a troll.
: I hope you agree with me that a person who only edits a single page does less harm to us (his work can be more easily reverted and the page can be protected) than a [[troll]] who trolls across several pages (who in turn does less harm to us than a [[spambot]]), and so should be treated less harshly than a troll.
: I hope you can see that some person might think it is hypocritical of me to both (a) put information about myself on my user page, but (b) block a user and immediately delete all of that user's edits when that person has made no edits, good or bad, other than putting information about himself on his own [[user page]].
: I hope you can see that some person might think it is hypocritical of me to both (a) put information about myself on my user page, but (b) block a user and immediately delete all of that user's edits when that person has made no edits, good or bad, other than putting information about himself on his own [[user page]].
: I don't know of any wiki where [[sysop]]s immediately delete user pages without warning. People who follow the [[Wiki: AreYouThere]] protocol first post a warning, then wait at least a year(!), then delete that user page. Wikipedia never deletes such pages: "A user's contributions that consist solely of a lone edit to their user page, ..., should not normally be deleted" -- [[wp:Wikipedia:User pages|Wikipedia: user page]]
: I don't know of any wiki where [[sysop]]s immediately delete user pages without warning. People who follow the [[Wiki: AreYouThere]] protocol first post a warning, then wait at least a year(!), then delete that user page. Wikipedia never deletes such pages: "A user's contributions that consist solely of a lone edit to their user page, ..., should not normally be deleted" -- {{Wp|Wikipedia:User pages|Wikipedia: user page}}
: Most [[wiki]] generally *encourage* newcomers to make a user page as one of their first edits.
: Most [[wiki]] generally *encourage* newcomers to make a user page as one of their first edits.
:* "As a first step, you can create a WikiHomePage using your WikiName." -- [[Wiki: AddYourName]]
:* "As a first step, you can create a WikiHomePage using your WikiName." -- [[Wiki: AddYourName]]
:* "Joining [[MeatballWiki]] is as simple as saying hello. ... Practice in the SandBox! Once you are comfortable, sign our guestbook, RecentVisitors, with your real name and then create your very own homepage here." -- starting page of [[MeatballWiki]]
:* "Joining [[MeatballWiki]] is as simple as saying hello. ... Practice in the SandBox! Once you are comfortable, sign our guestbook, RecentVisitors, with your real name and then create your very own homepage here." -- starting page of [[MeatballWiki]]
:* "It would be great for you to create your personal page, as it helps in creating and expanding a vibrant community composed of Real People. You may add links to your social networks ..." -- [http://www.aboutus.org/TheWikiWay:PersonalPage AboutUs: TheWikiWay:PersonalPage]
:* "It would be great for you to create your personal page, as it helps in creating and expanding a vibrant community composed of Real People. You may add links to your social networks ..." -- [https://www.aboutus.org/TheWikiWay:PersonalPage AboutUs: TheWikiWay:PersonalPage]
: WikiIndex is *different* from other wiki, so it is certainly reasonable for us to do things completely differently from any other wiki.
: WikiIndex is *different* from other wiki, so it is certainly reasonable for us to do things completely differently from any other wiki.
: If we choose to delete some kinds of [[user page]]s immediately, I think it would be polite to mention that fact somewhere on this WikiIndex, and perhaps even give the reasons why we do things our way. Perhaps a sufficiently persuasive page will help other people from other wiki realize that they are Doing It Wrong and start doing things The Right Way.
: If we choose to delete some kinds of [[user page]]s immediately, I think it would be polite to mention that fact somewhere on this WikiIndex, and perhaps even give the reasons why we do things our way. Perhaps a sufficiently persuasive page will help other people from other wiki realize that they are Doing It Wrong and start doing things The Right Way.
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"* [[User]]s may be blocked from editing by an [[Sysop|administrator]] to protect WikiIndex and its editors from harm."
"* [[User]]s may be blocked from editing by an [[Sysop|administrator]] to protect WikiIndex and its editors from harm."
I assume this is referring to "private" information. I'm writing a more in-depth analysis, and trying to establish consensus [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines#Biographical info|here]]. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
I assume this is referring to "private" information. I'm writing a more in-depth analysis, and trying to establish consensus [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines#Biographical info|here]]. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:As for the time being, I would suggest you go with [[wp:Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|Wikipedia's guidelines on biographical information]] and also include their standard of notability as explained in that link. For example, most wiki administrators would not meet [[English Wikipedia]]'s notability guideline therefore you would delete information about them. When editors complain or violate it, someone might direct them [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines#Biographical info]] and maybe they will present their case and we could establish some general guidelines that would work better for WikiIndex being that it generally has a more specialized notability criteria. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:As for the time being, I would suggest you go with {{Wp|Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|Wikipedia's guidelines on biographical information}} and also include their standard of notability as explained in that link. For example, most wiki administrators would not meet [[English Wikipedia]]'s notability guideline therefore you would delete information about them. When editors complain or violate it, someone might direct them [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines#Biographical info]] and maybe they will present their case and we could establish some general guidelines that would work better for WikiIndex being that it generally has a more specialized notability criteria. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:Secondly, perhaps some standard could be established regarding [[wiki]]s being excluded if they do not meet basic legal requirements for privacy, or whatever standards may be agreed upon by a significant majority of editors. If there gets to be [[edit war]]ring over the policy pages so this "[[consensus]]" is not possible, the owners would have to decide, I suppose. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
:Secondly, perhaps some standard could be established regarding [[wiki]]s being excluded if they do not meet basic legal requirements for privacy, or whatever standards may be agreed upon by a significant majority of editors. If there gets to be [[edit war]]ring over the policy pages so this "[[consensus]]" is not possible, the owners would have to decide, I suppose. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)


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([[User talk:Lumenos#1|Should Lumenos comment on this page?]])
([[User talk:Lumenos#1|Should Lumenos comment on this page?]])


DavidCary's [http://www.wikiindex.org/index.php?title=WikiIndex_talk:Blocking_Policy&oldid=70223 original proposal] begins by saying it "is pretty much the same" as [[wp:Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's block policy]]. There was one important difference I noticed between WikiIndex' block policy, and [[English Wikipedia]]'s, but I don't want to mention it. (If any administrator here, wants to know what I'm talking about [[Special:Emailuser/Lumenos|e-mail me]].) If that is still the case the block policy shouldn't say it "is pretty much the same" as Wikipedia. But I do think Wikipedia's block policy would be good for suggestions, for [[sysop]]s who are considering a possibly controversial block.
DavidCary's [https://WikiIndex.org/index.php?title=WikiIndex_talk:Blocking_Policy&oldid=70223 original proposal] begins by saying it "is pretty much the same" as {{Wp|Wikipedia:Blocking policy|Wikipedia's block policy}}. There was one important difference I noticed between WikiIndex' block policy, and [[English Wikipedia]]'s, but I don't want to mention it. (If any administrator here, wants to know what I'm talking about [[Special:Emailuser/Lumenos|e-mail me]].) If that is still the case the block policy shouldn't say it "is pretty much the same" as Wikipedia. But I do think Wikipedia's block policy would be good for suggestions, for [[sysop]]s who are considering a possibly controversial block.


''"Don't irk our gentle editors"'' opens the door to blocking people simply because someone is "irked", not because any rule was broken. One "sysop" posted warnings, then blocked. I don't think this block was upheld by Dilley (or maybe the "owner").
''"Don't irk our gentle editors"'' opens the door to blocking people simply because someone is "irked", not because any rule was broken. One "sysop" posted warnings, then blocked. I don't think this block was upheld by Dilley (or maybe the "owner").
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