WikiIndex

WikiIndex talk:Policies and Guidelines: Difference between revisions

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WikiIndex talk:Policies and Guidelines (edit)

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::::I'm glad you find it invigorating. I still find it tiresome. :-(
::::I'm glad you find it invigorating. I still find it tiresome. :-(


::::Yes, I consider whether or not a site is up or down to be basic information. In the avalanche of messages pertaining to conflicts at [[RationalWiki]], I hadn't even noticed that was one of the points of contention. By basic information, I mean facts which can be verified empirically (the link, the underlying [[:Category:Wiki Engine|wiki engine]], the statement of purpose, number of pages, etc.). I differentiate this from people's subjective experiences with the wiki.
::::Yes, I consider whether or not a site is up or down to be basic information. In the avalanche of messages pertaining to conflicts at [[RationalWiki]], I hadn't even noticed that was one of the points of contention. By basic information, I mean facts which can be verified empirically (the link, the underlying [[:Category:Wiki engine|wiki engine]], the statement of purpose, number of pages, etc.). I differentiate this from people's subjective experiences with the wiki.


::::This proposal isn't mine, BTW. It was proposed by [[Felix]]. But in the interest of discussion, I thought it was worth commenting on. In practice, I long ago realized that this is ''not'' a policy of WikiIndex and have been acting accordingly.
::::This proposal isn't mine, BTW. It was proposed by [[Felix]]. But in the interest of discussion, I thought it was worth commenting on. In practice, I long ago realized that this is ''not'' a policy of WikiIndex and have been acting accordingly.
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:::::''"I'm glad you find it invigorating. I still find it tiresome. :-("'' You've been doing so much good editing here lately, I wouldn't want to deter you. I don't know exactly what you are referring to. Some things I regret writing. I don't understand why you would find something tiring if you don't have to read it. I can understand if you want WikiIndex to seem inviting to other editors. Some conflicts I've been involved in, seem necessary, others do not (in hindsight). Having no auto-filter for [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent changes]] makes it impossible to direct this information to only those who choose to read it. In the future, I will probably post such replies at [[Lumeniki]] and only post a link to it. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)  
:::::''"I'm glad you find it invigorating. I still find it tiresome. :-("'' You've been doing so much good editing here lately, I wouldn't want to deter you. I don't know exactly what you are referring to. Some things I regret writing. I don't understand why you would find something tiring if you don't have to read it. I can understand if you want WikiIndex to seem inviting to other editors. Some conflicts I've been involved in, seem necessary, others do not (in hindsight). Having no auto-filter for [[Special:RecentChanges|Recent changes]] makes it impossible to direct this information to only those who choose to read it. In the future, I will probably post such replies at [[Lumeniki]] and only post a link to it. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)  
:::::''"In the avalanche of messages pertaining to conflicts at [[RationalWiki]], I hadn't even noticed that was one of the points of contention."'' The fact there was a service outage, was not a point of contention. Some points of contention were that I quoted sources and stated "facts", such as who said what. Some RW [[bureaucrat]]s preferred that WikiIndex <s>make unsourced claims or</s> assume that these are reliable/infallible sources and paraphrase these (as if these claims are endorsed by WikiIndex). [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::''"In the avalanche of messages pertaining to conflicts at [[RationalWiki]], I hadn't even noticed that was one of the points of contention."'' The fact there was a service outage, was not a point of contention. Some points of contention were that I quoted sources and stated "facts", such as who said what. Some RW [[bureaucrat]]s preferred that WikiIndex <s>make unsourced claims or</s> assume that these are reliable/infallible sources and paraphrase these (as if these claims are endorsed by WikiIndex). [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::''"By basic information, I mean facts which can be verified empirically (the link, the underlying [[:Category:Wiki Engine|wiki engine]], the statement of purpose, number of pages, etc.)."'' The statement of purpose can be completely misleading. It ''is'' a fact that it is the statement of purpose, but it is also an "empirical" fact that someone else claims there are ulterior motives. There are all types of ways to subvert a democratic process and make it look like a wiki is based on some sort of consensus. For example, a wiki may claim it is based on a conservative viewpoint, but the majority of conservatives may disagree with many key claims of the wiki or the management in general. If these conservatives bother trying to edit the wiki they may be reprimanded, [[Banning|banned]], etc. If WikiIndex simply parrots the claims of a wiki's owner, we contribute to this deception. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::''"By basic information, I mean facts which can be verified empirically (the link, the underlying [[:Category:Wiki engine|wiki engine]], the statement of purpose, number of pages, etc.)."'' The statement of purpose can be completely misleading. It ''is'' a fact that it is the statement of purpose, but it is also an "empirical" fact that someone else claims there are ulterior motives. There are all types of ways to subvert a democratic process and make it look like a wiki is based on some sort of consensus. For example, a wiki may claim it is based on a conservative viewpoint, but the majority of conservatives may disagree with many key claims of the wiki or the management in general. If these conservatives bother trying to edit the wiki they may be reprimanded, [[Banning|banned]], etc. If WikiIndex simply parrots the claims of a wiki's owner, we contribute to this deception. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::Basic information may include things like funding, biographical information about [[owner]]ship, prior endeavors of the wiki's rulers, copyright information, [[:Category:Wiki Backups|backup service]], etc. It is difficult to predict what some may find offensive, intrusive, or notable. Some information may seem unimportant until a wiki drastically changes. Wiki's become [[:Category:Dead|unavailable]], they move, they may completely change an important "policy" or "custom"... [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)   
:::::Basic information may include things like funding, biographical information about [[owner]]ship, prior endeavors of the wiki's rulers, copyright information, [[:Category:Wiki Backups|backup service]], etc. It is difficult to predict what some may find offensive, intrusive, or notable. Some information may seem unimportant until a wiki drastically changes. Wiki's become [[:Category:Dead|unavailable]], they move, they may completely change an important "policy" or "custom"... [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)   
:::::I would say the values of any [[sysop]]s and prolific editors are a part of WikiIndex "policy", whether it is written or unwritten. Dilley's "policies" may keep you from enforcing your preferred policy, but I don't think that you would be involved in enforcing Dilley's "policies". Secondly, by posting "your policy proposal" (or [[Felix]]'s paraphrase of "my" policy proposal :-)) you influence WikiIndex. I would think that is ''why'' Dilley would support commenting anywhere. If we can comment in articles, you are certainly welcome to comment on talk pages. I asked Dilley if he supports [[WikiIndex:Consensus|consensus]], he said yes, and that if consensus is not possible, he would support a supermajority. It doesn't look like we will have consensus on this issue but it looks like a large majority (including editors and sysops) may favor "your" proposal. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
:::::I would say the values of any [[sysop]]s and prolific editors are a part of WikiIndex "policy", whether it is written or unwritten. Dilley's "policies" may keep you from enforcing your preferred policy, but I don't think that you would be involved in enforcing Dilley's "policies". Secondly, by posting "your policy proposal" (or [[Felix]]'s paraphrase of "my" policy proposal :-)) you influence WikiIndex. I would think that is ''why'' Dilley would support commenting anywhere. If we can comment in articles, you are certainly welcome to comment on talk pages. I asked Dilley if he supports [[WikiIndex:Consensus|consensus]], he said yes, and that if consensus is not possible, he would support a supermajority. It doesn't look like we will have consensus on this issue but it looks like a large majority (including editors and sysops) may favor "your" proposal. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
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