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WikiIndex talk:Policies and Guidelines: Difference between revisions
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:::::''"In the avalanche of messages pertaining to conflicts at [[RationalWiki (en)]], I hadn't even noticed that was one of the points of contention."'' The fact there was a service outage, was not a point of contention. Some points of contention were that I quoted sources and stated "facts", such as who said what. Some RW [[bureaucrat]]s preferred that WikiIndex <s>make unsourced claims or</s> assume that these are reliable/infallible sources and paraphrase these (as if these claims are endorsed by WikiIndex). [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | :::::''"In the avalanche of messages pertaining to conflicts at [[RationalWiki (en)]], I hadn't even noticed that was one of the points of contention."'' The fact there was a service outage, was not a point of contention. Some points of contention were that I quoted sources and stated "facts", such as who said what. Some RW [[bureaucrat]]s preferred that WikiIndex <s>make unsourced claims or</s> assume that these are reliable/infallible sources and paraphrase these (as if these claims are endorsed by WikiIndex). [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | ||
:::::''"By basic information, I mean facts which can be verified empirically (the link, the underlying [[:Category:Wiki engine|wiki engine]], the statement of purpose, number of pages, etc.)."'' The statement of purpose can be completely misleading. It ''is'' a fact that it is the statement of purpose, but it is also an "empirical" fact that someone else claims there are ulterior motives. There are all types of ways to subvert a democratic process and make it look like a wiki is based on some sort of consensus. For example, a wiki may claim it is based on a conservative viewpoint, but the majority of conservatives may disagree with many key claims of the wiki or the management in general. If these conservatives bother trying to edit the wiki they may be reprimanded, [[Banning|banned]], etc. If WikiIndex simply parrots the claims of a wiki's owner, we contribute to this deception. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | :::::''"By basic information, I mean facts which can be verified empirically (the link, the underlying [[:Category:Wiki engine|wiki engine]], the statement of purpose, number of pages, etc.)."'' The statement of purpose can be completely misleading. It ''is'' a fact that it is the statement of purpose, but it is also an "empirical" fact that someone else claims there are ulterior motives. There are all types of ways to subvert a democratic process and make it look like a wiki is based on some sort of consensus. For example, a wiki may claim it is based on a conservative viewpoint, but the majority of conservatives may disagree with many key claims of the wiki or the management in general. If these conservatives bother trying to edit the wiki they may be reprimanded, [[Banning|banned]], etc. If WikiIndex simply parrots the claims of a wiki's owner, we contribute to this deception. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | ||
:::::Basic information may include things like funding, biographical information about [[owner]]ship, prior endeavors of the wiki's rulers, copyright information, [[:Category:Wiki | :::::Basic information may include things like funding, biographical information about [[owner]]ship, prior endeavors of the wiki's rulers, copyright information, [[:Category:Wiki database backup|backup service]], etc. It is difficult to predict what some may find offensive, intrusive, or notable. Some information may seem unimportant until a wiki drastically changes. Wiki's become [[:Category:Dead|unavailable]], they move, they may completely change an important "policy" or "custom"... [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | ||
:::::I would say the values of any [[sysop]]s and prolific editors are a part of WikiIndex "policy", whether it is written or unwritten. Dilley's "policies" may keep you from enforcing your preferred policy, but I don't think that you would be involved in enforcing Dilley's "policies". Secondly, by posting "your policy proposal" (or [[Felix]]'s paraphrase of "my" policy proposal :-)) you influence WikiIndex. I would think that is ''why'' Dilley would support commenting anywhere. If we can comment in articles, you are certainly welcome to comment on talk pages. I asked Dilley if he supports [[WikiIndex:Consensus|consensus]], he said yes, and that if consensus is not possible, he would support a supermajority. It doesn't look like we will have consensus on this issue but it looks like a large majority (including editors and sysops) may favor "your" proposal. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | :::::I would say the values of any [[sysop]]s and prolific editors are a part of WikiIndex "policy", whether it is written or unwritten. Dilley's "policies" may keep you from enforcing your preferred policy, but I don't think that you would be involved in enforcing Dilley's "policies". Secondly, by posting "your policy proposal" (or [[Felix]]'s paraphrase of "my" policy proposal :-)) you influence WikiIndex. I would think that is ''why'' Dilley would support commenting anywhere. If we can comment in articles, you are certainly welcome to comment on talk pages. I asked Dilley if he supports [[WikiIndex:Consensus|consensus]], he said yes, and that if consensus is not possible, he would support a supermajority. It doesn't look like we will have consensus on this issue but it looks like a large majority (including editors and sysops) may favor "your" proposal. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 03:32, 22 October 2009 (EDT) | ||