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User talk:This is not the solution: Difference between revisions
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I am late to this. Can you explain what is going on? - please use this [[talk page]] to do it. ~~ [[MarkDilley]] | I am late to this. Can you explain what is going on? - please use this [[talk page]] to do it. ~~ [[MarkDilley]] | ||
:I will. [[User:Nx]] was [[blocked]] for removing [[spam]]my links to [[Liberapedia]] and various inaccuracies and repititions on the [[RationalWiki]] article; Proxima also protected the article to keep her version up. Nx emailed the people in charge and tried to get [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima]] stripped of her rights, but when there was no response, someone started mass [[vandal]]ism to try and attract some attention. [[User:92.233.174.117|92.233.174.117]] 06:22, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | :I will. [[User:Nx]] was [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocked]] for removing [[spam]]my links to [[Liberapedia]] and various inaccuracies and repititions on the [[RationalWiki]] article; Proxima also protected the article to keep her version up. Nx emailed the people in charge and tried to get [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima]] stripped of her rights, but when there was no response, someone started mass [[vandal]]ism to try and attract some attention. [[User:92.233.174.117|92.233.174.117]] 06:22, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
I gave a link to [[Liberapedia]] as that wiki also has material critical of [[Conservapedia]] and I know many readers of the [[RationalWiki]] article will like that type of information. They called that [[spam]], well I've now added another link [http://cpmonitor.wordpress.com/ Digging the Dirt on the Lunacy that is Conservapedia] with better material about problems with Conservapedia. I only found out about that second website this morning and when I was under pressure I didn't think to add it. I hope the links are less spammy and more acceptable. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 07:07, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | I gave a link to [[Liberapedia]] as that wiki also has material critical of [[Conservapedia]] and I know many readers of the [[RationalWiki]] article will like that type of information. They called that [[spam]], well I've now added another link [http://cpmonitor.wordpress.com/ Digging the Dirt on the Lunacy that is Conservapedia] with better material about problems with Conservapedia. I only found out about that second website this morning and when I was under pressure I didn't think to add it. I hope the links are less spammy and more acceptable. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 07:07, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
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:::Also, unblock me please, and join us at IRC. [[User:Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you|Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you]] 07:26, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | :::Also, unblock me please, and join us at IRC. [[User:Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you|Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you]] 07:26, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::Several [[user]]s or several [[sockpuppet]]s of the same user first insisted on getting the [[RationalWiki]] article their way if they could, then when I protected that article they started general [[vandal]]ism. I hope I've cleared it all up. As far as I know they're all blocked but the user or users are experts at ban evasion and range blocks may be needed if it restarts. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 06:19, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ::Several [[user]]s or several [[sockpuppet]]s of the same user first insisted on getting the [[RationalWiki]] article their way if they could, then when I protected that article they started general [[vandal]]ism. I hope I've cleared it all up. As far as I know they're all [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocked]] but the user or users are experts at ban evasion and range blocks may be needed if it restarts. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 06:19, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:First, I apologize for the vandalism. I will clean up everything on my own. The issue is that Proxima Centauri is abusing her powers and reverting and protecting any edits to [[RationalWiki]], [[Liberapedia]] and other articles. She claims that removing content is a blockable offense. If you look at her edits at RationalWiki, you'll see that's an absurd claim, for example, look at [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=RationalWiki&diff=69045&oldid=69043 this], which contains two wrong dates, unnecessary quoting of the linked blog post and comment (I've summarised the content instead, and linked to the post), and her speculation about when the site would come back and a sentence before that does state when the site will come back. Only getting the right date there was a struggle. But her main problem seems to be that I and others have removed a paragraph advertising Liberapedia. Then there's [[Liberapedia]], which is her own wiki. I tried to improve her writing, but she reverted me without explanation and locked the article for a month. [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=Liberapedia&diff=69117&oldid=69073]. [[Category talk:Active administrators of this wiki]] also contains a previous incident during which she abused her powers on [[RationalWiki]] to pursue a personal grudge. [[User:65.60.37.195|65.60.37.195]] 06:26, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | :First, I apologize for the vandalism. I will clean up everything on my own. The issue is that Proxima Centauri is abusing her powers and reverting and protecting any edits to [[RationalWiki]], [[Liberapedia]] and other articles. She claims that removing content is a blockable offense. If you look at her edits at RationalWiki, you'll see that's an absurd claim, for example, look at [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=RationalWiki&diff=69045&oldid=69043 this], which contains two wrong dates, unnecessary quoting of the linked blog post and comment (I've summarised the content instead, and linked to the post), and her speculation about when the site would come back and a sentence before that does state when the site will come back. Only getting the right date there was a struggle. But her main problem seems to be that I and others have removed a paragraph advertising Liberapedia. Then there's [[Liberapedia]], which is her own wiki. I tried to improve her writing, but she reverted me without explanation and locked the article for a month. [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=Liberapedia&diff=69117&oldid=69073]. [[Category talk:Active administrators of this wiki]] also contains a previous incident during which she abused her powers on [[RationalWiki]] to pursue a personal grudge. [[User:65.60.37.195|65.60.37.195]] 06:26, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::I'll help with the vandalism, by the way. [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] 06:27, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ::I'll help with the vandalism, by the way. [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] 06:27, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
==Assume good faith== | ==Assume good faith== | ||
So - I am starting from this point. I know we are in a mess and I am late - but that is were I would like to start. | So - I am starting from this point. I know we are in a mess and I am late - but that is were I would like to start. [[User:Proxima Centauri]] has done a lot of work here and for that I am grateful. | ||
[[User:Proxima Centauri]] has done a lot of work here and for that I am grateful. | |||
:Yet she doesn't assume good faith. She has now blocked [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] who has helped revert the [[vandal]]ism. | :Yet she doesn't assume good faith. She has now blocked [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] who has helped revert the [[vandal]]ism. | ||
::BtW, don't unblock Phantom Hoover2, unblock [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]]; I'm fed up with using my neighbour's WiFi. [[User:70.84.211.82|70.84.211.82]] 06:36, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ::BtW, don't unblock Phantom Hoover2, unblock [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]]; I'm fed up with using my neighbour's WiFi. [[User:70.84.211.82|70.84.211.82]] 06:36, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
She may have done a lot of work, but that doesn't excuse her behavior. She failed to assume good faith when Phantom Hoover removed the offending paragraph in [[RationalWiki]], then she [[ | She may have done a lot of work, but that doesn't excuse her behavior. She failed to assume good faith when Phantom Hoover removed the offending paragraph in [[RationalWiki]], then she [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocked]] me without warning with the justification that since I've edited Phantom Hoover's talk page, I should know that removing content is a blockable offense. She did not justify any of her reversions. It seems she didn't even read the edits she reverted, because she then asked a question that she would know the answer to had she read the edit. [[User:Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you|Please unblock Nx and his IP, thank you]] 06:39, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
==I want a cooling off period== | ==I want a cooling off period== | ||
[[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] - will you accept that? ~~ [[MarkDilley]] | [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] - will you accept that? ~~ [[MarkDilley]] | ||
:Yeah, but can you unblock [[User:Nx]] (who is the one who really didn't deserve his [[block]]), his [[IP address]], and block ID #586, which is my home IP. [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] 06:45, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | :Yeah, but can you unblock [[User:Nx]] (who is the one who really didn't deserve his [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|block]]), his [[IP address]], and block ID #586, which is my home IP. [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] 06:45, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:Nx's IP has block ID #576. He's the one who you should be addressing all of this to; I just got tangled up in it. [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] 06:47, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | :Nx's IP has block ID #576. He's the one who you should be addressing all of this to; I just got tangled up in it. [[User:Phantom Hoover2|Phantom Hoover2]] 06:47, 24 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
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I thik the above post by Koveras is the best suggestion so far. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 02:03, 27 August 2009 (EDT) | I thik the above post by Koveras is the best suggestion so far. [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]] 02:03, 27 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
Sorry, but Proxima has demonstrated that she has no qualms about locking and [[blocking]] to prevent people from questioning her. I cannot accept her getting off with yet another abuse of power. She has already locked articles on at least three separate occasions to prevent people cleaning up her terrible writing and ovious vendettas, and she seems not to care. She should be stripped of her sysop powers. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 12:51, 27 August 2009 (EDT) | Sorry, but Proxima has demonstrated that she has no qualms about locking and [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocking]] to prevent people from questioning her. I cannot accept her getting off with yet another abuse of power. She has already locked articles on at least three separate occasions to prevent people cleaning up her terrible writing and ovious vendettas, and she seems not to care. She should be stripped of her sysop powers. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 12:51, 27 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:I think it is a bit foolish to fire a volunteer, when there is apparently nothing stopping us from changing [[Editing etiquette|the policy they were apparently following]]. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 22:53, 28 August 2009 (EDT) | :I think it is a bit foolish to fire a volunteer, when there is apparently nothing stopping us from changing [[Editing etiquette|the policy they were apparently following]]. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 22:53, 28 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::(Note that "Proxima" didn't write this rule, they seem to have been trying to carry out their admin duty.) I updated this "guideline" so that this "editing etiquette" is clearly not to be a basis for blocking people. Ta da! I hope this is not wandalous of me but when <del>Dad's</del> cat's away, mice will play! [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 00:54, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ::(Note that "Proxima" didn't write this rule, they seem to have been trying to carry out their admin duty.) I updated this "guideline" so that this "editing etiquette" is clearly not to be a basis for blocking people. Ta da! I hope this is not wandalous of me but when <del>Dad's</del> cat's away, mice will play! [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 00:54, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
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:Yes I noticed that. I'm wondering if it is working or if you are not enjoying the attention or something. Seems a bit odd, that you would bring ''that'' up in the middle of the policy page, of all places. It is sorta relevant, in that this is what motivated much of this, but you could speak in general terms, and discuss policy on that page if you don't want to bring more attention to that info. It's really kinda cute, but I hate to think you are suffering over this. Of course I have no way of knowing that. I'm a little paranoid myself. Sometimes I think you are all playing some joke on me. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | :Yes I noticed that. I'm wondering if it is working or if you are not enjoying the attention or something. Seems a bit odd, that you would bring ''that'' up in the middle of the policy page, of all places. It is sorta relevant, in that this is what motivated much of this, but you could speak in general terms, and discuss policy on that page if you don't want to bring more attention to that info. It's really kinda cute, but I hate to think you are suffering over this. Of course I have no way of knowing that. I'm a little paranoid myself. Sometimes I think you are all playing some joke on me. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:I imagine those people feel frustrated and powerless and that is why they are "resorting" to being "mean" to you. I don't know how this whole thing started (I probably don't care). I just wonder if we can't move forward somehow. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | :I imagine those people feel frustrated and powerless and that is why they are "resorting" to being "mean" to you. I don't know how this whole thing started (I probably don't care). I just wonder if we can't move forward somehow. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:The problem as I see it, is this place is running in..what do they call it?... headless chicken mode! There is no policy but people talk about "[[troll]]ing" in reference to say, deleting something, and they accuse you of illegitimate [[ | :The problem as I see it, is this place is running in..what do they call it?... headless chicken mode! There is no policy but people talk about "[[troll]]ing" in reference to say, deleting something, and they accuse you of illegitimate [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocks]] when the closest thing to policy there is says "no deleting". So I suggest we work together and write some [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines|policy]]. There is no point in me doing that myself, of course it means nothing if the admins aren't going to follow it and it is not democratically legitimate if it doesn't have community support. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:If you only want to try to resolve the specific conflicts you are having recently, I would suggest doing that here. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | :If you only want to try to resolve the specific conflicts you are having recently, I would suggest doing that here. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:30, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::Right, let me make entirely clear the circumstances surrounding Proxima's name. On RW and several other sites, she made an account using her real name. She later stopped using this account, and switched to Proxima Centauri; however, she said several times on LP that she was the same person (and any idiot could see that anyway, because they both had the same writing style and strange obsession with the Magdalene Laundries). This was duly noted on [[RationalWikiWiki]]. Proxima didn't like this, and rather than ''denying'' that the username was her real name, complained on RW. Since we didn't deep burn all references to her name, she had a strop and left. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 16:47, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ::Right, let me make entirely clear the circumstances surrounding Proxima's name. On RW and several other sites, she made an account using her real name. She later stopped using this account, and switched to Proxima Centauri; however, she said several times on LP that she was the same person (and any idiot could see that anyway, because they both had the same writing style and strange obsession with the Magdalene Laundries). This was duly noted on [[RationalWikiWiki]]. Proxima didn't like this, and rather than ''denying'' that the username was her real name, complained on RW. Since we didn't deep burn all references to her name, she had a strop and left. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 16:47, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
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[[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]], through their actions, your accusers demonstrated their incompetency and their limitations. I understand how unpleasant it is to have your privacy invaded but I cannot think of a way to counter it except just let it blow over. For the time being, I would cheer myself up with an image of basement-dwelling schoolkids whose only joy in this life is to pull on an anonymous mask and gang up to mob decent people. :) --[[User:Koveras|Koveras]] 05:58, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | [[User:Proxima Centauri|Proxima Centauri]], through their actions, your accusers demonstrated their incompetency and their limitations. I understand how unpleasant it is to have your privacy invaded but I cannot think of a way to counter it except just let it blow over. For the time being, I would cheer myself up with an image of basement-dwelling schoolkids whose only joy in this life is to pull on an anonymous mask and gang up to mob decent people. :) --[[User:Koveras|Koveras]] 05:58, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:We didn't invade Proxima's goddamn privacy! '''She outed herself.''' I don't like you now. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 06:04, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | :We didn't invade Proxima's goddamn privacy! '''She outed herself.''' I don't like you now. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 06:04, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:I'm trying to figure out who these [[troll]]s are. Is [[User:Nx|Nx]] a troll? Is Phantom Hoover a troll? I'm not sure how many were [[ | :I'm trying to figure out who these [[troll]]s are. Is [[User:Nx|Nx]] a troll? Is Phantom Hoover a troll? I'm not sure how many were [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocked]] and now are not blocked, does this mean they turned from trolls back into humans? Or are the trolls being allowed to run rampant for the time being? Do any administers besides Proxima have anything to add/subtract to the [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines|policies]] I've been suggesting in order to '''''define trolling''''' here? [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 14:37, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::Me and Nx were blocked; Nx for cleaning up the RW article, and me for giving him formatting tips after he started on his wandal spree. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 15:04, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ::Me and Nx were blocked; Nx for cleaning up the RW article, and me for giving him formatting tips after he started on his wandal spree. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 15:04, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
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:Very well. Show me a justified example of vandalism from a zombie computer. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 09:02, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | :Very well. Show me a justified example of vandalism from a zombie computer. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 09:02, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:That is quite far from what I consider to be an insult. I suppose he is saying we aren't sensible but suggesting he should be [[ | :That is quite far from what I consider to be an insult. I suppose he is saying we aren't sensible but suggesting he should be [[WikiIndex:Blocking and banning policy|blocked]] over that, is way over the line, in my view. It is only an opinion. Why do these things bother you so much? I'm trying to imagine how my words will sound if you interpret them in the most defensive way possible. I hope I don't sound mean or anything. I'm glad you are seeking a second opinion on this, but I'm beginning to think that you are way too trigger happy with that block button. I haven't known you for long but I say that as a friend. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:48, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::<nowiki>*</nowiki>hugs Lumenos* [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 16:53, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ::<nowiki>*</nowiki>hugs Lumenos* [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 16:53, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:::Wait are you a dude? :-) [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:59, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | :::Wait are you a dude? :-) [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 16:59, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::::Yes, but I've spent several days trying to convince people that she is block-happy, and it's a huge relief for someone to say that. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 17:00, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ::::Yes, but I've spent several days trying to convince people that she is block-happy, and it's a huge relief for someone to say that. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 17:00, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
:::::I suppose you mean someone who isn't a RW regular. Well I hadn't seen it before, but in PC's defense, she didn't actually block, but it suggests that she may have before for something that minor. You could direct us to the evidence. Like [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page= the block log] and the blocks that you feel are illegitimate. I'm pretty exhausted at the moment so I may be able to convince myself to go to bed now. I'm not saying she is a bad sysop until some editors are actually willing to establish a [[WikiIndex: | :::::I suppose you mean someone who isn't a RW regular. Well I hadn't seen it before, but in PC's defense, she didn't actually block, but it suggests that she may have before for something that minor. You could direct us to the evidence. Like [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page= the block log] and the blocks that you feel are illegitimate. I'm pretty exhausted at the moment so I may be able to convince myself to go to bed now. I'm not saying she is a bad sysop until some editors are actually willing to establish a [[WikiIndex:Policies and Guidelines|policy]] and we see if she and they will adhere to that. [[User:Lumenos|Lumenos]] 17:57, 29 August 2009 (EDT) | ||
::::::She blocked [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxima+Centauri&page=User%3ANx Nx] for changing the [[RationalWiki]] article to remove advertisements for [[Liberapedia]], two conflicting incorrect dates and various erroneous statements, like the thing about the backups. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 04:13, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ::::::She blocked [http://wikiindex.org/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Proxima+Centauri&page=User%3ANx Nx] for changing the [[RationalWiki]] article to remove advertisements for [[Liberapedia]], two conflicting incorrect dates and various erroneous statements, like the thing about the backups. [[User:Phantom Hoover|Phantom Hoover]] 04:13, 30 August 2009 (EDT) | ||